Iraq fallout

Discussion in 'The Back Room' started by Motorcity Gator, Mar 14, 2006.

  1. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    GW Bush is feeling the effects of the convoluted, perplexing and downright disastrous conflict in Iraq as evidenced by the newest poll results.

    A CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll released Monday found only 36 percent of Americans approved of Bush's performance in office -- a new low for his presidency in that poll -- and 57 percent said they considered the March 2003 invasion that toppled Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein a mistake.

    This war was ill-advised and terribly planned for the long term.

    I say we cut our losses on the side of Democracy, focus 50,000 troops into the sole purpose of controlling the export of Iraqi oil and fall back...recruit and prepare for what is certain to be an all out war in Iran when they are determined to possess nuclear weapons.

    Oh...and I forgot the part about stepping up military aid and billions of dollars in tactical support to Israel. The U.S. right now would be well served in making Israel one of the most powerful nations militarily on earth.

    This ticky tack, dancing around the issue policy is not working. Let's face it...Israelis will always think closer to the way we think as Americans and we should embrace their development of military strength.

    First politician that mentions a strong, unrelenting Israel as a Middle East necessity has my vote 110%>
     
  2. George Krebs

    George Krebs Well-Known Member

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    Bill Clinton ran every facet of his presidency by public opinion polls. In the end, he was remembered only for an extra marital BJ. Nothing more.

    Bush has stuck by his word every step of the way. I do not agree with the conduct of the post war operation in Iraq but not once have I ever doubted where Bush stands.

    Polls mean nothing except to those on the outside looking in. Results matter. 9.11 was a long time ago. That was the last terrorist attack on US soil.
     
  3. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Bush will not be re-elected! :).

    It will be interesting to see though how the Dems do in the midterm elections, it's traditional that the party out of power usually picks up some seats.

    I'm trying to think of a 2 term president who's 2nd term was really great?

    Not Bush of course, not Clinton, not Reagan (Iran-Contra), not Nixon...is Ike the last 2 term president who left on any kind of high note?

    Terry
     
  4. JO'Co

    JO'Co Well-Known Member

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    Bush's sinking poll numbers are the result of Republicans deserting the lame duck. They're positioning themselves to avoid the mid-term election whammy and to stake out new ground for 2008. What's most interesting to me, is how Bush's poll numbers are sinking at the same time that economic indicators are showing a booming economy that's one of the greatest ever, with high employment and low inflation, at the same time that the Sadam tapes are revealing that his administration was telling the truth about WMDs all along. Even Al Gore has stopped calling him a liar, as the new lib/Dem line is that he could have revealed more, but didn't. Say what? So now its Bush's fault that they've been acting stupidly for six years?
    :roll:
     
  5. Stu Ryckman

    Stu Ryckman Well-Known Member

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    Ah, well,

    The Republican rats are deserting the ship (which I believe won't sink but will stay afloat)...they have lost my respect, not that they care.

    And meanwhile the clueless Dems continue to run against Bush in 2008 instead of coming up with any ideas of their own.

    stu
     
  6. whobedis

    whobedis New Member

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    :twisted: The Dems are bankrupt just the same as the current powers that hold sway in the rep. party. It's time for a third party! To be truthful if Tom Tancredo and Lou Dobbs would run on a ticket they would have my vote.
     
  7. Tailback

    Tailback Guest

    I am more hopeful than a year ago about the end of neocons. Even the ultra-conservative base is waking up to the failed promises of this administration, and I am praying this mafia will be sent to jail (especially Cheney) in a couple of years.

    Hopefully, democracy, which we preach, will really work in America.
     
  8. whobedis

    whobedis New Member

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    TB.....I am somewhat to the right of Ghengis Khan. At least that is what my wife tells me<G> but the current administration reminds me of a something Abe Lincoln is credited with saying "Ya can fool ....." The trouble is the true rep base is going to pay the price for the pendullum swing even if they trot out the "bloody flags of abortion and gay marriage" again.
     
  9. AJNJ

    AJNJ New Member

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    Low Inflation ??????

    I've watched home values soar 2-3 times since 2001. I've watched my gasoline, heating and electric bills double within the last 5 years. I've watched my clients salaries soar while my own, has deflated.

    Where do they get these numbers from?

    Who are they BS'ing?

    I know this #'s game. It takes extreme concentration, almost a trance like state , a little creativity and quick hands. With Catlike patience , you wait until the right moment , leap, lunge and grab your numbers out of thin air. With the numbers firmly clenched in your grasp , you begin to shape and mold them like clay . Soon you will have a finished product that will make every sculptor jealous.

    A good numbers guy can take a pile of dung and make it look like diamonds.

    Peter Lynch the stock market guru once suggested that people invest in what they know. That is what they can see , feel touch and smell., rely on your senses or common senses. The same principle applies here.

    To the poor man on the street, what inflation? A new home was unatainable 5 years ago. For him it still is. To the rich man, what inflation, he's got money to stay ahead of the game. He's still rich.

    Now to the working man, who busts his arse to clothe, feed and shelter his family YEOUCH !!!!!! :twisted:

    You have a false economy fueled by debt at levels that are unprecedented !! Credit never has been this easy. That's a dangerous game they are playing. One wrong move and the bubble bursts. Even worse now that the bankruptcy laws have tightened. Minimum payments are going up dramatically on credit cards. I have never seen so many people without money. I see trouble ahead !

    :roll:
     
  10. BuckeyeT

    BuckeyeT Well-Known Member

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    AJ,

    you know better....never have so many Americans been employed in jobs that paid them so well. Never before have so many Americans owned their own homes and have had greater net worth....consumer credit has only expanded at a 3.3% rate over the last 5 years, hardly a credit bubble. Granted bankruptcy laws have tightened promping a surge in filings in the 4th qtr which led to a spike in credit card charge-offs at banks across the land. Even in the face of that, 2005 earnings at banks set a new record for the 5th consecutive year. It was the first year EVER with no insured institution failure and the problem bank list has shrunk to a historic low. S&P 500 earnings and - given your profession you'll appreciate have never been of higher "quality" - dividends are at record levels, corporate balance sheets have never been stronger. This economy is still rolling on solid footing....perfect, no. Growing, healthy and solid, yes.

    Re: inflation - the BLS CPI series is a well respected data set and encompasses dozens of items in great detail (e.g., haircuts, club memberships, fresh vegetables, etc)....and has been carefully tended over the years through many, many changes in administrations. The latest data - a year over year increase in all items of 3.6% does reflect a 20.1% increase in energy costs and a 4% increase in housing costs offset by a decline in apparel costs - can you say China(?). Core ex-food and energy exhibited a 2.1% increase....perfect, no. Is this data set reflective of changes in prices over time across dozens of consumer items, yes. It's true, inflation - all things considered - is low.....

    Terry
     
  11. gipper

    gipper Well-Known Member

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    Just because home values soar in one part of the country doesn't mean that every section of the country follows suit. Here in Michigan property values are stagnant if not in decline. The body shots to the domestic auto industry are having a huge impact. I'm sure other parts of the country like the steel section are still struggling.
    JO'Co makes a great point. When times are bad we hear from the left "it's the economy stupid!" and when the economy is running well, you never read about it.
     
  12. Stu Ryckman

    Stu Ryckman Well-Known Member

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    Unless there is an incumbant Dem.

    stu :wink:
     
  13. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    This falls into the category of "A fine mess Ollie":

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11906068/
     
  14. Tailback

    Tailback Guest

    It is time for Bush lovers to be ashamed of themselves. After more than 5 yrs of Bushdom and 3 yrs of Iraq war, and more than 4 yrs after the "war on terror", there isn't a thing to show. Not a thing. One miserable failure after the other.

    And no one takes responsibility. The mafia continues to rule, and it continues to replace anyone capable with cronies of their own. The mafia gets away with another stupid GOP congress mafia that keeps toeing to the party line.

    How long will this mafia take to hit the newly increased $9 Trillion debt ceiling? Give them a year.

    If there are any Bush lovers left on this board, raise your hands. You owe an apology to all Americans.
     
  15. Tennessee Tom

    Tennessee Tom Well-Known Member Administrator

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    TB,

    I grew up in a time that you were probably too young to remember. I saw Americans protesting against the Vietman war to the point that America was a country divided. I saw public opinion turned against the soldiers that were fighting the war. I saw those protestors spit upon returning American soldiers. One of my friends in high school lost his sister at Kent State. She was one of the four that died in the Kent State fiasco.

    I swore that I would never be a part of that negativity... I would never give comfort and aid to the enemy while America was involved with any action against another country.

    You sir are a part of what I have sworn to not take part in. You are a part of what is dividing this country and giving comfort and aid to the enemy. I will not be a part of that scene no matter how you ask the question.

    I see you as the typical Democrat talking down anything done by Republicans. You never have a plan of action other than shouting down their opposition. Once, just once, I would love to see a Democrat say: "That is the wrong thing to do. This is the correct plan and we should start by..." and then list out the steps of his/her proposal. It is easy to sit back and criticize without having to answer to anyone.

    You wrote:
    TB, you are the one that owes an apology to all Americans. I am not a "Bush lover." I am a loyal American that backs the country and tries not to do anything to tear it apart. I owe nobody an apology for that.
     
  16. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Why should any American who voted for Bush or any other politician apologize for anything? All voters, democratic or republican vote for candidates all the way from dog catcher to the President. We have no idea what their terms in office will bring, if some of them disappoint us with thier actions, that is not our fault. In the 2000 election those who voted for Bush had many reasons, one of which was to restore honesty and integrity to the office where Ma and Pa Clinton had drug the office down to the gutter by lying directly to the American people ...remember "I did not have sex with that woman", taking time away from meetings with heads of foreign states to get blowjobs. Tearfull apologies and promises to meet with spiritual advisor Jessie Jackson!! Man that must have been a meeting where Jesse told him how he was carrying on an adulterous affair and getting away with it. In 2004 there really wasn't a choice, John Kerry a man of no integrity who ran on his "supposed" intelligence superiority over GWB when the truth was that he finished behind Bush at Yale. A man who campaigned that he would put more boots on the ground in Iraq, not less. A man who was out of touch with the common man completely. He took Al Gores plurality in votes and turned it into a deficit. A man who chose to make his glorious Naval Career his center piece, when in fact the biggest moves he made was to get shot in the ass on purpose and to make a wrong turn while driving his swift boat. Where virtually everybody who served with him thought he was a pompous ass, except for the 4 or 5 guys who he carted around the country as his SwiftBoat Vets. A guy who came out swinging against those who drove SUV's as harmfull to the environment, when in fact he himself owned several SUV's although he tried to make us believe that since his wife technically owned them, he wasn't really a SUV. A man who's entire energy policy was to jawbone the Sheiks.

    No American voter should have to apologize for their vote, a lot of politicans both Democrat and Republican should apologize to America though for the job they do. I'd suggest Teddy Kennedy should resign and apologize for starters.

    Terry
     
  17. BuckeyeT

    BuckeyeT Well-Known Member

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    Taliback,

    What have you - or any Lib/Dem - done today to help your country win its war on terror?

    I believe with every fiber of my being that this is our generations world war....that it will be a lengthy, arduous conflict encompassing, as it has, virtually every corner of the globe is to be expected. It is for certain that - as has been the case in every other major conflict in history - there will be successes and their will be setbacks. It should come as no surprise that we have had some setbacks in the conduct of this war as well as some successes.

    If the fiber of our country was to cut and run from every conflict in the face of a series of setbacks, can you imagine how history would have been re-written and what the globe would now look like.....we, would still be a colonial possesion - General Washington having been hung for treason against the Crown. The European continent having been carved up between the German Fascist and Stalinist Russian regimes with the entirety of China and Southeast Asia being a supply depot as an Imperial Japanese possession.

    Thank goodness our forefathers had the courage to perservere in the face of tough times....that we have had setbacks and that there will be further setbacks in this struggle is not in question - it is a certainty. The only real question is will we have the courage, the wisdom and the will to prevail in this vitally important struggle..... it's our turn. Get in the game Taliback, your country needs your help!

    May God bless America, her fearless warriors and her courageous leaders.

    Terry
     
  18. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    If this conflict were to do as Alllawi says and spread throughout the Middle East then it may indeed be the beginning of WW3.

    The first inkling that Muslim/Islamists around the world get that it is a war against their religion as much as a war against terrorists then all hell will break loose and it could be quite a destructive conflagration.

    Maybe we have played directly into the terrorists hands. Most of you feel we can beat these assholes into submission with superior air power, etc. but the only ones who may feel threatened by that are the very, very few in the power seats in the Middle East. It is the dirt poor masses who only have their religious faith and hatred of all things American that we will be facing and they have proven to be quite suicidal when it comes to confronting America.
     
  19. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    I certainly don't think we can beat them into submission with Air Power, oh sure we could destroy their bases, their tanks, their planes, their command and control structure. But they will do just like the Iraqi army did, ditch their uniforms and melt into the populace. Even after defeating Saddams Army which was supposed to be the largest in the region, something like 1 million men, right? How many prisioners of war did we have, 10 thousand?

    The problem with fighting these guys, is that they will do things that we can not and they can do these things with impunity within their community. When was the last time there was any Arab outrage over killing women and children, with beheading non-combatants? Yet the world castigated us for making guys wear underwear over their heads.

    About all we can do at this point is to keep them on the run to a certain degree and hope that the Iraqi people will stand up to these bastards and throw them out.

    Terry
     
  20. George Krebs

    George Krebs Well-Known Member

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    TB,

    Here's my apology to you..

    [​IMG]

    Pucker up, Cupcake.