http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43055919/ns/business-consumer_news/t/new-york-investigates-banks-role-fiscal-crisis/ If someone knowingly misled investors and insurers and then the end result was people losing thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in value on their homes.....some going so far underwater foreclosure was the only option.....then I hope they get their justice served in this probe.
Agree...the key word is "knowingly". Everybody knew what these banks were doing...nobody recognized the risks...or those who did were not listened to. If they were "knowingly" hiding bad mortgages in there just to dump them, then...
I believe with every fiber of my being that those involved that were guilty of crimes should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law....be they banks, store front brokers, investment banks, rating agencies, insurance companies, ma and pa speculator and fraudulent applicant, politicians, government agencies and/or government agents......each and every one of the above played a role and in some cases skirted the law in so doing.......the bony finger of indignation and klieg light of media indictment be cast on them all equally and without bias.....the fault and thus the guilt of this great calamity does not lie in the laps of the few as some of us here are lazily lead, read and would love us to believe in an their beloved superficial, uninformed and biased version......and community organizations, God forbid we forget about the role played by community organizations....they have dirty hands in this mess as well as any.....
Whomever knowingly skirted the existing law should be held accountable. If the laws aren't in place to prevent this type of thing from reoccurring then they need to be put into place. If regulation is too lax.....government oversight too loose.....then those things need to be implemented fully. It has been proven more than once that greed wins out and when greed is an available strategy it can be the path taken. Greed may have always existed on Wall Street or Main Street for that matter but that doesn't make it right and when innocent people get hurt something has to be done. Sure some people stood in line to get mortgages they shouldn't have even tried for but there are millions of good Americans severely affected by this crisis who may never recover from the losses and that is wrong and I refuse to acccept that it is the American way of doing business..
As long as humans have walked the earth, the frailties of the human condition have been evident on every street.....you can't legislate morality. Enforce the laws and prosecute to the fullest but you can never outlaw greed and stupidity.....
But you set rules into place and have a system of enforcement that diminishes the opportunity to have legions of innocent peple taken advantage of or become the fallout victims of other's stupidity and greed and ill gotten wealth. One side wants no government interference....less rules and regulation.....just let those greed mongers run wild and free and do their deals. The other side believes in more civility and wants to regulate to ensure integrity. We see what happened in the housing industry when greed was allowed to run rampant. Now we are seeing at the pump what happens to gas prices when greed is allowed to run rampant. The split right now in oil futures as I have read between users of wholesale crude and speculators is 70% speculators and 30% users. That is a 180 degree shift from years past when it was always 70% Users and 30% speculators. Oil analysts are saying there is no real underlying market causes of the current spike in oil prices so the conclusion points to the speculators. Some people are getting fabulously wealthy because of the oil price spike.....Big Oil is raking in record profits by the mega billions while the average American bends over and takes it. Free market or not.....just like in the housing/mortgage industry that is crap....and it screams for government intervention. But we all know one side of the fence is dead set against that intervention in spite of the killer effect this unbridled greed has on our economy. At least a few people are getting super rich out of the deal so all is right.....on the right. :roll:
:roll: :roll: Same old rant with you.....it's no use, I'll not even waste my time. I do hope that you find your nirvana or, in time, come to the realization that it doesn't exist and ease your tortured soul. Carry on.....
But BT....you say you want things done right with honesty and integrity. And yet....when we leave those that will not operate that way with the free reign to do so we see how that negatively impacts the great majority that have to foot the bill. I thought you were against large groups of people footing the bill for a priviledged few.
What you fail to appreciate, understand and/or acknowledge is the destructive impact of the unintended consequences of regulatory action.....much of what led to and transpired during the credit crisis was created or made vastly more severe for ALL parties by poor but perhaps well-intended regulation. The greater is the morass of regulatory layers, the greater is the risk of unintended consequence and artificial and often politically influenced angels of government.....nobody is so smart as to have greater insights than the collective wisdom of us all....
If the price hike is all due to speculation, then there is or will be a bubble...and it will burst...and those you dislike will take their bath. Unless they are "too big to fail" and we bail them out.
Some may take a bath....but some have golden riches salted away while the rest of us wring our hands at the gas pump. I mentioned this before but the SEC ( stocks not FB ) gained it's regulatory teeth after the market collapse and Great Depression of 1929. The FAA keeps airlines safe for travel. Would any of us buy stocks or fly without those two regulatory bodies doing their job to the fullest? Well....maybe BT would I guess. The point is there have been great calamities that have occurred in the past few years that are a tragedy to the American public in so many ways and the causes need to be unearthed and regulated to the hilt so as to rid them and prevent them from happeneing again and to punish those who have pushed the envelope too far past the legal limits.
......and here is the rub - in many instances the causes were a direct result of efforts to enact the "to the hilt" regulation.....these geniuses or angels from heaven that you suggest can design the optimal societal activity are not sent here from God-almighty himself....they are humans, subject to the frailties of the human condition and their own self-interest......the notion that political and/or regulatory self-interest is more noble than economic self-interest is naive at best and laughable in reality.....how far removed from corrupt politicians and special interests do you have to be to not understand how legislation is crafted in this country??????? Seriously.....
Just talking about human decency and a way to keep indecent humans from ripping the rest of us off. I mentioned the FAA as an example. Would you really trust the safety of flying without the watchdog service of the FAA? Are they just about self-interest or more about public safety?
In the Declaration of Independence, Jefferson states that the only reason governments exist is to protect the rights of the people and that when they fail to do that, the people have the right to alter or even abolish the government. Citing an example of necessary government regulation that most people have agreed to is hardly an excuse for the kind of Euro-trash, socialist nanny state that the Obamanites have been setting up. Where is there a compelling national interest for the bureaucrats in Washington to regulate everything from health care to school lunches and why are exceptions always made for those who contribute to the political party that protects the regulators? :?:
Not talking about regulation just for regulation's sake. I am specifically talking about regulation for the complete prevention in the future of the type of people and activities that brought down the housing industry and set in motion the severe recession that still affects all of us. I'm talking about making an effort to regulate greed and keep greed from having a severely negative impact on the rest of us as do the high prices at the gas pump. If greed is rampant in health care and a few try to get mega wealthy at the expense of many then that needs to be regulated and prevented. Captive markets should be protected from those that want to extort them.
While you're at it why not try and tackle gluttony, lust, pride, anger and sloth as well? Sloth....now that's a good one. I bet we can get rid of a massive amount of entitlement spending if you can regulate sloth and after all, it is entitlements that are bringing down this great nation......
You can't eliminate greed but you can outlaw it and prevent it from damaging so many victims if you can just get them out of the pockets of the lawmakers who always want to protect what they do..
Since the Great Depression we as a society have looked increasingly upon the Federal Government as a "sugar daddy". We are now broke. We have two choices..... drastically cut spending across the board or go the way of ancient Rome. To continue this argument is fruitless.
So you are saying let's just eliminate agencies like the FAA and place our trust ( and our lives ) in the hands of the airlines management and stockholders without any oversight. It's about what we are doing with fuel and what we did with the housing industry and more people have probably died from stress related illnesses due to the housing crisis crash and foreclosure mess than have ever died in airline crashes.