"Stand your ground"claims yet another innocent victim: http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/14/justice/florida-movie-theater-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 You have to be a stone cold redneck idiot to defend this asinine murderous law. Another little girl has lost her Dad.
Point is Terry that "stand your ground" is immediately brought up as a defense. Find the right boneheaded far right jury and this asshole might walk.
Self defense is always brought up in these cases, stand your ground or not. Consensual sex is always brought up in rape cases. Perhaps we should ban consensual sex. As long as such a thing is allowed it will be used by unscrupulous attorneys to make it easier for guilty rapists to get off scott free.
Good analogy Stu except that I don't think you could find a political faction in support of rapists running around for any reason. You might however find some twisted ultra-conservatives that would protect "stand your ground" and defend it all costs..... even if it's existence was promoting this cowboy mentality of don't f*ck with me or I'll shoot yer ass.
You just don't get it...this shooting had nothing whatsoever to do with stand your ground. Actually I believe that you do get it. You just don't care if the facts get into your way when you want to throw insults at people who believe differently than you. Fine.
Having proved what a complete waste of time supporting Tebow in Denver was, he now tries to replay the Thugon Martin case ranting about the Florida Stand your Ground law which is obviously a concept a little out of reach for some.
I do get it. I get that some asshole carrying a weapon might possibly have had it in his gun loving head that he might utilize said weapon to kill someone he had a heated disagreement with and then use the "stand your ground " law as a defense. Nevermind that reasonable thinking people don't believe he has a chance to be successful with the defense. Just like in the Trayvon Martin Case you guys only see what you want to see: "WESLEY CHAPEL, Fla. - Stand your ground is being hotly debated in the Pasco movie theater shooting. While Pasco Sheriff Chris Nocco told reporters there's no way it will "fly" in court, defense attorneys say not so fast- the fear of great bodily harm and death is the very basis of stand your ground. "Stand your ground does not limit it to just fear of death, stand your ground permits you to use deadly force if you think you're about to suffer great bodily harm," says well-known defense attorney Stephen Romine who has handled countless high profile cases over the years.
I believe stand your ground is over hyped by both opponents and proponents. Your asshole carrying a weapon will claim self defense whether stand your ground is in effect or not. There are some subtle differences. I am not an attorney but my impression is that the key difference, after all, is that it makes it a little more dependent on the prosecutor's ability to prove that the crime was a crime. Before these laws (again in my unexpert opinion) there was somewhat more of a "burden of proof" on the shooter to prove that he was, in fact, in fear of death or severe bodily harm. Even without stand your ground laws, fear of severe bodily harm is sufficient (at least in Ohio). If defense attorneys are trying to misinterpret the laws (happens all the time) that does not make them bad laws. This is, after all, a country where you are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. I suppose that somewhere, sometime, somebody will get off free by an incorrect interpretation of stand your ground law. Until then, could we try to have a rational discussion about them (or no discussion of them) without your using every unrelated shooting as an excuse to call us assholes?
As I recall the question is whether or not the state is going to place a duty to retreat on the victim of the initial assault. The Stand Your Ground Doctrine allows the victim to resist rather than choose retreat.
We can sit from afar and discuss... debate... whatever. What bothers me more than anything else is that a little girl has lost her father.... her mother witnessing his death inside of a movie theater of all places by the hand of a man that basically began the argument. Whether or not stand your ground is invoked by the defense atty. is not as important as whether or not an ex-cop having an ornery day had it in his mind that he has this weapon available and by God.... if ever he feels threatened he is going to shoot first and ask questions later. Did the law contribute to an innocent father's death and a little's girl's permanent grief and to the incarceration for life of a guy who just might have been having an ornery... cantankerous day? This is the second case in this area ( not Trayvon Martin ).... where a father was murdered by an older man who had easy access to a handgun and "felt threatened" during an argument that he was very much a part of starting. It's unsettling.... and it's inexcusable that it should just be forgotten and brushed aside. I'll tell you what you are placing your life in jeopardy in this state just by getting in to an argument of ANY sort with strangers who might be confused or empowered by this law and who are carrying a handgun.
Taking a deep breath... Stand your ground does nothing to enable an idiot to kill someone for throwing popcorn in an argument over texting...any insinuation that it does is hysterical, duplicitous and completely false. Hell, I don't even feel strongly that stand your ground laws are necessary...but your arguments are so outrageous and incendiary, especially with all the insult spewing, that I get sucked in. Your opposition to stand your ground is legitimate. Your insinuation that anyone who disagrees with you would "brush aside" a tragic death is not. Done here.
Then the defense attorney is being hysterical, duplicitous and completely dishonest. That may be true in reality..... but that's not what the defense attorney is saying when he ropes in "stand your ground" as a defense and you know if he does pursue that defense that confusion and empowerment on the part of the defendant because of that law will have to be a part of it. The only other defense is "Hey.... I lost my head.... got too pissed off.... temporary insanity..... never should have a gun in my possession because I am obviously an unstable hothead".....
Dave, just because someone tries to use a screwdriver as a jack-hammer doesn't mean it will work. Please give it a rest.
Yeah Scott but I have a problem if they were confused or misled about that scewdriver working and someone innocent dies as a result.... don't you? Suddenly it seems as if some are willing to ascertain that if you argue with a person older than you in the state of Florida.... or perceived as being weaker than you then that gun-toting ( paranoid? ) person has the right to shoot your ass for arguing with them because the fact that you are mad is life threatening! http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2014/0114/Florida-theater-shooting-Will-suspect-s-age-open-door-to-stand-your-ground-videoing? WTF?? I already tell my sons never to argue with any strangers because some people are nutjobs and there are other people just as willing to defend the nutjob for killing you.
Plenty of NRA, Tea Party and Michelle Bachman stickers north of the St. Marys river Wendy. Hope there's room on the bumper for "Stand Your Ground Doesn't Kill.... Arguing With People Doz" :wink: I would just like to see my home state cleaned up a little.