We have, and most others around the country, have tried to avoid the finger pointing and pissing contests over who is the blame for the terrorists getting through.. But watching Clinton running around NYC is really going to rub some people the WRONG WAY. Right or wrong (I don't want to debate this now because it really is NOT the time), some people need to tell the Clinton media machine that there are a WHOLE LOTTA people in this country that hold him responsible for our weakened military and intelligence status... I don't care about him issuing the occassional statement etc... but these now famous Clintoneque photo op appearances really rub people the wrong way...Someone get him off the tube, NOW..
Corey, Long time no talk! I see that now we all have put our differences behind, clasped hands, and entered the stage of this crisis of uniting to fight the enemy. One point though!! Last time I read the history books Clinton was elected Prez twice. His wife is the U.S Senator of the US in the State of NY, the state you speak of. His Vice Prez won the popular vote by close to a million votes. And a large % of the minority vote in this country puke when they see our setting Prez in as much as they figure he has little use for folks of color and perhaps used questionable tactics to win the presidency. Not to mention police officers and working firefighters both represented by labor organizations that believe Prez Bush is no friend of anybody that works for a living. Groups I might add that suffered large numbers of losses doing their job saving stockbrokers, CEO's of brokerage firms etc. lifes. Everybody is entitled to their opinion! But if unity to accomplish our cause is an important issue to you think about what you say. You see you just might need one of those firefighters to risk his life saving your sorry butt one day. Or perhaps one of those UA Local 1 gasfitters that climbed through those tunnels under Manhattan Island shutting off manually gas valves to keep that place from blowing. I personally thought Clinton lacked character. Much as I despise the fact that our sitting Prez. avoided the draft using Daddy's connection to jump over a waiting list to get into the reserves. But right now I am an American, and I would expect a man in Bush's position would appreciate any support from a successful 2 term Prez. I am sick and tired of listening to Rush, Dortch and all the other whiney butted media types that made millions of $$ preaching division of America. I often wonder how many folks are appreciative of the fact that violent revolution did not break out after the election? I got news for you, Bush would have lost a street fight. Keep your crap to yourself! America needs cohesion not division. And remember as mad as a bunch of Izod wearing yuppies, wearing penny loafers preaching old time religion can get. It can in no way approach the anger Firefighters, cops, construction workers, factory workers, janitors, my hispanic familia, or some pipe swinging hard hitting brother from Harlem, can put on your butt. Perhaps the next time you see Clinton supporting our President you will realize that just perhaps some of these folks mentioned felt reassured that they were appreciated by someone they atually trust. Perhaps that trust just might transfer to a setting prez with a very divided country looking to him. One in wich a a majority of the folks using election numbers probaly do not trust. The point is to attempt to gain a majority of the folks of this nation to stand in unison against a common enemy. Your BS ------------------ Bob R FORWARD LARGE ORANGE!!!!!
Your BS??? While we could debate the validity of the votes cast for each side.. While we could most certainly debate the reason why unions vote for one party and not the other..While we can most certainly comment about who the LEAST visable NY politician in all of this.. You are right, we need to be together on all of this... While you can qoute sheer numbers, try taking a look at a map of the US and see who voted for who and why... Without getting into the whole crap about exactly who profited from what during that 8 year administration, the people spoke.. The system worked. There aren't a whole lot of Izods wearing preppies in penny loafers down here in AL, MS and TN preaching God to anyone.. There are people here pissed because they see this guy making "photo ops" and not "backing the Pres"... From the time of Bush's election, this guy has been trying to pop up every so often to keep the eye on him... There are a whole lotta folks that are tired of it and don't want to hear it... But I tell you what... we can continue this debate when all this crap is over.. Deal? There are bigger fish to fry
"America needs cohesion not division. And remember as mad as a bunch of Izod wearing yuppies, wearing penny loafers preaching old time religion can get..." Talk about your 180s. Rick
Backing YOUR prez as you posted just might include Clinton showing support. You have no idea the outrage even in the SOUTH of people. People in the south do not just include ole time white folks, replanted midwesterners, and spoiled brat folks that resent the fall of Jim Crow. People of consciense do live in the south!!!!!! And yes many may set aside differences for a common goal. But Corey you are out of line. You say you are outraged as are many people of your convictions. Just think just as many folks that do not see the world the way you do may be just as outraged and need Clinton to show his support. Much hate and class divide exist that apparently you lack the maturity and wisdom to understand. Do me a favor, instead of posting that crap light a vigil candle for a fireman! I will gladly send you a dollar for this noble cause. Just give me your address, it will be in the mail. In fact I promise you that I will light a candle for both you and the firefighters tommorrow at Immaculate Conception church in Knoxville. Both of you need the help that the almighty might provide you. ------------------ Bob R FORWARD LARGE ORANGE!!!!!
Bear down rick, People different than you have opinions! That was a 180! It made a point! We need unity, Bush needs those folks that despise him to accept him and support him. I am sorry to tell you this, Bush needs help to pull it together. Lots of bad blood out there! It is time to reach out, not divide! You have got to understand division does exist! Wishing it away does very little! Accept support and work with it. That is the sign of a leader. ------------------ Bob R FORWARD LARGE ORANGE!!!!!
I give up... there's no point in going on with this line. I am only relaying what people were saying in the line at the grocery store (who were black by the way) and what people are saying on the radio, and around town........ I can only say that I am the ONLY person I came in contact with today (outside of my two year old son) who is NOT from the South.. Maybe Bob missed the whole, "I now live in Alabama" thing... who knows, I give... I'm not going to sit here and listen to the diatribes of an apologist when I am stating the reflections of those that I come in contact with, IN THE SOUTH... Will someone please remind me who won the election in the states of the former President AND the VP.. Aren't both of those states in the South? I guess "the man" must have fixed those elections too... From "The Heart of Dixie" Corey ps I want to have the continuity needed. All I was relaying in my original message is the FACTUAL reaction to what many people see as a "photo op" seeking politician... As I sit here watching the news, I've already seen Bill replayed 5 times in the last two hours.. How many times have I seen our President played by the media? Once.. The fact that this guy shows up "on the scene the very day before OUR PRESIDENT is supposed to strikes to many former cords with people who resent his entire 8 year reign. You want us all to "think" about what we say and to unite... All I am asking is that the former Prez and his people do the same... I'm done with this [This message has been edited by Corey (edited 09-14-2001).]
whatever corey, How about facing up to the fact that your CRAP divides people! That is a good start! Right now people want to be united! We need none of your BS! As much as you want to "PUSH" an ideolgy on folks, many care not to hear it! You do not like Clinton fine, so be it! Many like him and appreciate him and will unite to help America with his words. You wish only to "win" a battle you cannot win. Many will support Bush in the name of America. But you do little but divide!I can take anything, but an arrogant butthole only hurts unity. ------------------ Bob R FORWARD LARGE ORANGE!!!!!
you know what Bob... This was a reply that was quite lengthy and nasty, but at the end I just went back and erased it before sending it... I will say this: Eight years we have been dividing this country via political correctness and lopsided taxation. Eight years we seperated the African American community from the rest of the United States because we let guys like Jesse Jackson use media terror tactics to intimidate people to succomb to HIS WISHES.. Meanwhile he profits, not the community that he allegedly represents. Eight years we took a situation in the Middle East where we once held a boot to the throats of the entire region while we irradicated (sp) those who reigned terror on the innocent Christians and Jews, and we totally turned it upside down...Count the nations that were once on our side that now harbor terrorists and had turned their backs on the US because the US turned their backs on them. Eight years we gutted the military and intelligence because we all laughed off the threat of a danger from abroad.. Who cared right? We all made a buck or two on the market while we concentrated on our "problems within".... Jeez, I could go on forever again but I will cut it off.. You are correct.. There is division in this country.. As I suggested, take a look at the map and see the amount of country that did vote for this President.. According to the polls, people are behind the President here. My point, and that of others I talked to or listened to today, is that we don't mind the former President issuing statements and offering support... But from the end of his Presidency, this guy has done nothing but try to "one up" the President.. Showing up on the scene where the President is due to show up THE NEXT DAY is seen as yet another attempt by the former Prez to one up the current President.. The actions of the former President are the very actions that these current terrorists are citing as what feuled them.. That doesn't make them right, nor does it dismiss what he did.. It's best for all of us if he remains in the "support group" and not in the "spot light". Corey BTW, that one million figure has been disputed by everyone except Demo apologists. Please tell me that you realize that the entire popular vote was, and never will be, counted... NOW, I am done with this subject...In fact... Bill, Terry or whoever...go ahead and remove it if you want
Bob, I was pointing out the dissonance in your own remarks. Nothing more. As far as the rest of your post, you're preaching to the choir, except for the "wishing it away" part. I have no idea where you pulled that out of. For someone preaching unity, you have an awfully divisive approach. Rick
Hey Bob, Have you read one damned thing I have posted outside of this section for the past two days??????????????????? Reading your comments, obviously not.. Your comments piss me off because you get off your little zingers and then hide under the blanket of "unity" Unity is what I and everyone else want..What others don't want to see is people doing exactly this.... All I want is for the FORMER President to allow the CURRENT President to do his job without the sideshow...
Bob - "Bush needs help to pull it together." Corey - "It's best for all of us if he [Clinton] remains in the 'support group' and not in the 'spot light'." Seems reasonable. Kumbaya, Rick [This message has been edited by Bear Down Rick (edited 09-14-2001).]
Corey..share your thoughts. I am confident that the American People will support President Bush in rooting out and defeating these terrorist vermin. As he has stated, there will be no distinction between terrorists and those who harbor them. I thank God that he won this narrow election.
Vic, I'll tell you what...... At the moment, I am pretty darned pleased with our Atty General. Let's hope he can continue to help bring those responsible to stand for their deeds.. As for the Clinton thing.. It ticked me off but folks here were enraged.. The "african american" couple that stood in front of me in the grocery store were talking about how he stood there holding pictures of the missing children, but no adults... Not to put any more emphasis on one and not the other but to go out and get flyers from people, you'd have to work pretty hard to get a fistful of flyers there and not come up with one picture of an adult.. It just struck too many people as a phoney photo-op... I hope to God I am wrong and those were not his intentions.. But they were quite critical that the only NY politician not seen every day in the streets of NY and on the cameras is Hillary... I just agreed with them because..well heck I agree with them... But I didn't continue it any further with them because I honestly believe that we should discuss such things but shouldn't hold onto them at the present.. We have much greater tasks at hand.. With that said, I do wish this topic could get deleted..
Corey: I'm not on your side on this one. I've seen Hillary on TV plenty in the last few days. I've not been a big Clinton fan but I thought that his showing support and weighing in has been appropriate. You're striking me as one who's formed his opinion by listening to the right wing commentators like Limbaugh who is no more than a hate monger with an agenda. He got rich bashing Clinton and peddling his hate to those inclined to lean in that direction. I've spent my life in the media, I know how it works. I can differentiate between commentary and propoganda. Limbaugh and those like him are elitists who spent eight years feeding the fires of hatred against a president who, when history is written will be judged as as extremely effective on domestic issues and for building a healthy economy. I'm surprised that someone as bright as you bought into it. I think Clinton is supporting this president as we all are in this time of crisis. I don't see him as parading around creating a "photo op". I've grown to respect the opinions of you and your dad over the years (remember how we used to duke it out on the Prodigy boards?) but I think you're all wet on this one and I don't think this whole topic is appropriate at this time. You're the one who started it and you're the one who can't seem to drop it. [This message has been edited by todj (edited 09-14-2001).]
Tod, I have not heard one second of a Rush Limbaugh show since the whole election thing was going on.. Even then, it was only because that station is the only one that would come in.. (at work) I'd spend three hours a night listening to shows about alien abductions too.. At home, the only radio shows I listen to are local sports shows, and conference call.. I flip back and forth between Fox, MSNBC and the BBC for coverage of this latest event. I would like to state once again that this was not just my opinion.. The Clinton appearance yesterday and the rescheduling of the SEC games are the only topics I've heard someone mention besides the sad events in NY. I agree with you that time will tell how history records the Clinton legacy. This may shock you but I happen to agree with you that it will support his domestic policy...As far as his international policy, well time will tell and I will leave it at that.. I don't claim to have "the inside scoop" on anything regarding the media.. In fact, I regard the vast majority of political coverage within the US to be nothing more than Propoganda driven by financial or political considerations.. You just can't find anyone on the air who truly speaks their mind anymore.. I don't claim to be an expert but I am fairly well read on international policy and especially terrorism.. It takes me back to my nerd/jock days in HS.. Playing football games on Friday night only to catch a bus Saturday morning to go to a Model United Nations conference for the weekend..It's always been a big interest to me.. That said, I do remember the good old days of slugging it out on *P.. In the offseason I wish we could just grab an issue and rip into each other for sh*ts and giggles..But the mods won't let us In all, I do agree with you that this is not the time and place for this and wish the mods would take this down...... All wet, but not wrong Corey [This message has been edited by Corey (edited 09-14-2001).]
Let me tell you something Bob without even expressing my opinion on this particular topic. Corey has put thoughtful post after thoughtful post here. I doubt anyone else has exceeded his thoughtful and intelligent posts. If you don't agree with this one that is your business but to accuss Corey of being devisive here you are wrong. If you don't agree with his thoughts that's your right, but before you accuse him of something like you did I would advise you to read all his posts since Tuesday before making that judgement. Bill
I agree with Corey 100%. For eight years Clinton made a mockery of national security, the military and American pride. In short, he created a "climate" that was conducive to this type of attack. And now to watch he and and his "wife" photo-opping in this carnage is revolting. New Yorkers have seen more of Hillary in the last 48 hours than they have since she was elected. For the record, when Limbaugh came on the air Reagan was the sitting President. To say he "got rich" off of Clinton is preposterous.
Clinton is not our president, however he is the one topic that causes such division and outrage. Interesting.
With all due respect Tod I doubt that people in the media know the difference between comment and propaganda. The fact that Fox News is growing while the same old phonies at CNN and others is shrinking shows me that people were fed up with their "news" that was so much propaganda. Yesterday in the middle of an interview with Gephart, Brokaw actually asked him about the money being spent in this emergency and the impact of the tax cut. Don't these phonies ever put their political agenda aside? In the long run this may play into their hands. After all, the easiest way to regain the White House is to ruin the economy. It was great that after Gore invented the internet that dot com companies sprang up all over and cause a great bubble in the US economy. Their stocks soared, they used venture capital to buy technology equipment from companies such as Cisco, Oracle etc. All this was great as the economy built by Clinton was roaring on. Too bad the bubble started tearing in June of 2000 before Clinton started on his world gathering wealth tour. Otherwise, more might have bought the claim that he was responsible for the economy of the 90's. Glad to see he's back from some resort in Australia. Just how many days has he spent a minute in his offices. You know the one he wanted millions from the taxpayers to pay for.