Is there another conference in the country where some of the teams have actually reduced the size of their stadiums? Stanford recently opened an new stadium that seats 20K or there abouts less than the old stadium. CAL is going to retrofit their stadium and upgrade it while reducing it's capacity by 10K. Other conferences have schools who are increasing the sizes of their stadiums, yet the Pac10 is not, I wonder why?
You had to see the old Stanford stadium. It was one of those dated multi purpose types with a track around the football field. The stadium didn't even have a locker room. It had to be outdated 30 years ago. I don't know what their average crowd was but I'm pretty sure it was less than the capacity of their new stadium. The only other stadiums that I can think of with tracks around the field are Illinois and the Colisium in LA. Are there others?
Actually in one of the recent refurbishing of the Coliseum they removed the tracks and reduced it's capacity from over a 100K to 92K. Again could you see Michigan reducing the capacity of it's stadium? It seems to be a phenomena of the Pac10. The Rose Bowl also once had a capacity of over 100K and has been reduced to something like 93K in the most recent upgrading.
The problem with the two LA stadiums was that you couldn't actually see the field from some seats. Why sell them? You're just asking to get sued no matter how many disclaimers and qualifiers you put on that ticket stub. I know the Rose Bowl (one of my friends from HS is one of the 'turf gurus' who has worked on the grass there over the years.. he died a while back) put in a crown and drainage system that literally would eliminate the game from the viewpoint of people sitting in those low tarped off sections. Parts of the Coliseum were at such a severe angle, you couldn't view more than a quarter of the field depending on where the action was.. So with the old 'classic bowl' stadiums, I believe that is the case. I know telling a guy from Texas that 'it ain't about size' is literally pissing in the wind, but Stanford really doesn't need a 100k stadium. I believe, especially with the old bowls, that they were created for track and field. Some were even created for chariot races.. (I **** you not). I think if Stanford reduces their seating 85k to 50k, that is realistic and it doesn't look real shabby. That's one thing that always got me about reading 'why the SEC is best'.. They'd talk about 'packed stadium's... but those packed stadiums sat 50 or 60k people. If you put 60k in the Coliseum, the place looks empty. I think the problem with Cal is multi-faceted. You have the hippes...earth quake codes...space etc... With TV contracts and all there is to do in those areas, it makes sense.
Corey, Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee and I believe LSU all have stadiums with 80,000 or more. Tennessee has over 100,000 and the others except LSU are in the range of 90,000. The Gators sell out every game as I believe do the other 5. South Carolina has a good sized stadium also.
Bill... Even with the recent expansions: Ole Miss-60k Miss State-55k Kentucky-67k Vanderbilt-39k You are pointing to the super teams and the super stadiums. The Pac10 could do that with USC 90+k, UCLA 90 to 100k, Washington 74k etc.. My point is.. there is this public image out there that the SEC all play in these massive venues. Some do, some don't. Just like the other major conferences. The difference being, you guys are just now expanding to those numbers (which backs my original point) while some of the Pac10 schools are scaling back.. Cal, even with the retrofit shrinkage will seat 71,000. I'd say most of the Pac10 facilities are in and around 70k.. Some are larger, some a little smaller but 70k is about the right average I'd say off the top of my head. It's not a 'better or worse'... They are all right about the same. Of course, it would appear to you to establish some sort of supremacy so I say go for it... My additional original point stands. There's also a LOT more stuff to do in those Pac10 cities than there is those SEC cities. There's no denying that football is king in the South. You add that pure passion for the sport and mix it with the fact that there isn't jack sh*t to do in Auburn, Tuscaloosa, Gainesville, and Baton Rouge etc... you get my point.. The people there live for this one series of events. It's pretty cool actually. Oh.. another thing to consider about Cal's stadium that I forgot to mention before.. The GD thing is literally built ON the Heyward fault.. That has to be an engineers nightmare with current building and safety standards in California.
Corey, I didn't leave them out exactly. What I did was list the larger one. I think above you said something about the SEC bragging about filling stadiums but mentioned they have 50k stadiums. We have a lot of big stadiums and the smallest is Vandy. I agree it is cool and Gonzo used to use that argument that there's not much to do in Gainesville. However on gameday the majority of the fans in our stadium come from elsewhere. The roads are packed on the interstate before and after the game. I did find it strange that some of the PAC 10 teams are downsizing their stadiums. But I think your post explained why.
Bill, Looks like you have to change your signature line since Urban has decided to return to coach Spring ball! :lol: Don
Don, Dammit you're not helping keep the peace here Bill, Ok I gotcha. Yeah some of those older stadiums that are being 'downsized' are MUCH older and are old fashioned bowl stadiums.. I believe it was Gip who had it right about Stanford's old school 'multi-use' monstrosity. My point in mentioning the SEC was this.. The thing that 'makes them great' or 'shows their passion' isn't that Alabama, Florida, LSU and Georgia can draw 90k, it is the fact that even the middling to celler dwellers play in front of 'packed houses'... My point was that they are and were really small 'packed houses'... All of those stadiums I listed above have recently 'expanded' to those numbers. Not knocking them but when the announcers would make these fantastical claims, even as a kid, I would think... wait a minute.. 45k at a football game is half the size of the crowd at UCLA and back when I was a kid, 90k in the Rose Bowl would leave HUGE gaps in the stadium that made it look worse than it was.
Thanks Don, I think I will look for a new signature. Corey, sometimes I have had the same thought about a packed stadium of 45k and it almost looks empty when one of those big stadiums have 45k. I think to some degree Miami has suffered from that phenomenon. Like Terry, I still find it a little strange but I do know fans don't like seats where they can't see well. As far as stadium expansion in the SEC, the Gators are likely at the end of the line with our right at 90 k, any further expansion would call for knocking down some buildings on the east side of the stadium.
Yeah, it does seem your stadium is like a hopped up super car.. Impressive, but you couldn't squeeze another inch of motor into that space The Rose Bowl could seat up to 106k and I believe that is the record. I am betting you could really get about 110k if you went to ground seating in the corners as well. As I mentioned, and this is odd.. but if you got 3rd row seats at the 50 (after the grounds improvement) your sight line would put you right at the bottom of the players butts. Obviously, not a very good seating deal. The Coliseum is a different animal all together. They had 115,000 people there for an exhibition baseball game between the Dodgers and Red Sox. That place (for football) can seat right about 106k, maybe 110.. but the sight lines are AWFUL. It's weird when you see it on TV because you'd think they are all good seats, but when you get down near the peristyle you are WAY far away from the action and if you get seats up next to the pressbox, you can't see parts of the field. I can't see them tearing either place down though due to historical significance. I'm betting that it would take something like an earthquake to destroy part of the stadium before they'd seriously consider taking either down.
I don't know Corey, I used to think the same thing about the Orange Bowl but it's been torn down and a baseball stadium is being built there.
Good point Bill. I am not 100% sure of the Orange Bowl history but the Rose Bowl and Coliseum are literal historic landmarks that have legacies with the Olympics, World Cup soccer etc.. The Rose Bowl is surrounded by a golf course and a neighborhood. The Coliseum is surrounded by ghetto and USC. There isn't a lot of room to tear down and build.
The Orange Bowl didn't have that history for sure. Joe Robbie building his own stadium for the Dolphins helped end the Orange Bowl. As a kid and teenager growing up in Miami I went to the Orange Bowl many times. For Hurricane games and the high schools played there also. Then we got the Dolphins and I just assumed the stadium would be there for a long time. However the last time I went there for a game, in 2003 I think, it was a lousy experience, from the traffic to the mens room being so chaotic you couldn't get in and if you did you couldn't get out. I swore I would never go there again. I am not sure just what they are doing for parking for the new Marlins stadium. There was no parking at the Orange Bowl, you had to park in people's yards. It won't be missed.
Corey, I forgot. I get you on the SEC stadiums. But I do think that the four you listed are the four smallest. The other eight are over 70 K
Oh true. My intention was not to belittle the SEC, just to show that everyone has those teams and stadiums. I've heard tailgating at the old OB was terrible. In LA, the two couldn't be more different. At the Rose Bowl, you're tailgating on a golf course.. It couldn't get any more scenic or relaxing. At the Coliseum, you are tailgating in a parking lot that is gated to keep the hoodrats of south central LA OUT. You could always head over to campus, which is across the street, but you're asking for it. USC fans are generally not very receptive to visitors. I'd rank their fans pretty low on the classless scale. They do have pockets, very small pockets, of good fans.. the rest of them are all just kiffins.