What I just subjected myself through watching this abortion in AA I will not even post on the details. This program is in a total meltdown, total.
I will have to admit things can not get much worse for the Irish! Charlie even look confused at times? It may be a long season for you Domers. Don
I've only been watching since 1964 so I may be hasty with my opinion but this is easily the most inept, undisciplined Irish team I have ever seen. This is worse than anything Davie or Willingham trotted out. This team cannot even make it to midfield. I still think we may win 2-3 games but we are more than capable of running the table to 0-11. We are almost certainly a 4-6 weeks away from a reasonable chance to win. And please, let's stop blaming Tyrone. This fish stinks on both sides of the ball.... from the neck down.
Hang in there...Bill will put a positive spin on this somehow just to make you guys feel better. Me.. I understand...it was terrible....horrible and if I had nightmares about how I wouldn't want my team to play that ND exhibition in AA today would be it. I hear "Touchdown Jesus" is now "3 and Out Jesus"....
enjoy it mcg <t>and now for those willing to talk football and not ESPioNics...<br/> <br/> What a total breath taking lack of senior leadership. We know that we have few in number, but how about the few that we have NOT be the reason we shoot ourselves in the head.</t>
I've got to rant <t>and I know Sid and I are on the same page here but....<br/> <br/> <br/> Jeez, this is a game of 'little things' and momentum. Time after time, its our 'senior leaders' that are making the big mistakes that kill our momentum. That doesn't excuse everything else, but quite often there is a snow ball effect. When you have young kids out there wide eyed and looking for leadership, the last thing you need is the damn 5th year senior snapping the ball 15 yards downfield..<br/> <br/> Worse yet (given that mistakes DO happen) later in the game, that senior leader shouldn't be laughing openly on the sidelines while the youngins are hanging their head.<br/> <br/> One thing Lou did when his assistants weren't getting it done is take over that spot, because ultimately, its his responsibility. Its time for Charlie to take over the OL.</t>
MCG, someday you may grow up, but there are times I seriously doubt it. From reading what the Notre Dame fans here say, and I believe they know a lot more about Notre Dame than you do, there is not much talent left over from the Willingham era. Taking them at their word, and you want to know how the Irish are going to do in the future you have to look at two factors, coaching and recruiting. I don't think even you can deny that Weis can coach. So let's look at his recruiting classes, 2006, ranked #5, 2007 ranked #11 and this year so far 19 kids committed with a 4.0 star rating, Scout Network, which has them at # 1 and almost guaranteed top 5. So yes I think Notre Dame's future is pretty bright if they don't eat their young because of this season.
"I don't think even you can deny that Weis can coach." It may be awhile before he has the chance to prove it again. And no...I haven't seen proof that Weiss can coach ND to a championship type season. And yes....that's what I was talking about earlier.....you don't disappoint.
You know Bill I almost deleted any reference to you in my first reply to this topic because I figured you would come back in a bombastic way as you did. However...it annoys me how you sugarcoat everything and this ND team doesn't deserve sugracoating...plain and simple. They are maybe the worst Notre Dame team right now I have ever seen on offense...period and maybe the worst offense in college football. Now maybe that's stating the obvious and I will not comment on this again until it changes for the better...which is the only way it can go.
um <t>didn't you win a big game today? go p*ss in your own barn.<br/> <br/> i know you are enjoying ND being down (this year), and if I were you, I'd enjoy the hell out of it.<br/> <br/> We have skill people, we have the play calls. What we need know is heart, execution and leadership.<br/> <br/> What we are seeing take place on the field (and you should know this if you read up on your sports rather than just reading puff pieces in CFN/ESPN etc), is that Chuckles is refusing to admit that this a 'rebuilding' year.<br/> <br/> Chuckles is arrogant, and refuses to give in to what the media wants. He could give 2 sh*ts what you, or ESPN, or anyone outside the ND family thinks. (remember the line of coaches he followed).<br/> <br/> So anyway, he has refused to admit that they are rebuilding and virtually void of anything resembling experienced leadership. He didn't feel it was fair to the seniors (the few there are) that he toss them under the bus and hand the keys to the kingdom to younger players with more ability, but far less experience.<br/> <br/> Those players that he protected, have dropped the ball. Terribly. Costly penalties and goofy assed mental mistakes...drive killers...committed by our 'senior captains.'...<br/> <br/> If he is half as smart as I believe he is....he is learning a lot from this experience... He is a recruiting machine. He CAN coach. I believe he has made mistakes as a head coach...but some of these mistakes are made by season experienced coaches... Even Holtz had been burned by bad senior leadership, although not often..<br/> <br/> What you, and many in the media, just REFUSE to believe (or admit) is that ND has no one to block. No one. This is the legacy of back to back terrible recruiters who did not emphasize OL recruiting or development.<br/> <br/> If you ever did any breakdown of the tape, you will see there ARE PLAYS THERE... they can't be made because NO ONE IS BLOCKING. This must end. Chuckles is responsible for it now regardless of what he was left with....<br/> <br/> But I ask you...if Charlie was left with so much....<br/> <br/> <br/> What was ND's pre-season ranking?<br/> <br/> Where did they figure in the pre-season BCS or National Title picture?<br/> <br/> Curious. Just curious, because the reaction of many (since game one, not just today) is that ND had a full (or even half full) cupboard to deal with. If so, I am wondering why that wasn't reflected when the 'experts' had to put their name on the line and put together their preseason rankings.</t>
I agree with much of what you said Corey. "He CAN coach" is one thing my gut says I agree with but I have not seen it yet except in flashes like the USC loss two years ago and ND is far worse right now than I thought they would be because they are not in the least bit competitive. I never harbored much in the way of expectations for the Irish this year because of what they lost and I thought a losing record was a definite possibility but this train has left the track momentarily at least. Again...my gut says Chollie will eventually get it back on track. He had better start soon for the ND faithful. As far as my own barn...there are many more cows in this barn than in mine on this board so ND discussion bears importance and interest here on S/B. If it was all Wisconsin fans here we would be dissecting the Badgers unusually close game with the Citadel.
Give me a break MCG, you didn't almost delete any reference to me because you thought I might come back in a bombastic way, you included the reference to me hoping I would. If you are annoyed because you think I'm sugar coating that's tough. I would put it a different way, I hope I look at the world as a glass half full, optimistic view. I can understand how that annoys you. But in Notre Dame's case it's also a realistic view because of what I put in my earlier post. And Corey's right, right down the line from his opening remark to you. Gator Bill
Bill is a gentleman as well as a moderator. He never feels the need to flame or pile on. He doesn't find it necessary to re-state the obvious or do incessant victory dances on the grave of a victim. He has diffused many a brush fire on these BBs before they becamce something more serious. This topic is not about Bill but we appreciate him. Now on to the topic at hand. Senior leadership. I have not detected any. Biggest let downs have to be by John Sullivan who has played terribly all year and Travis Thomas who not only has played poorly but has gotten stupid penalties in each game. Carlson must be kicking himself for not turning pro last year. On defense, Crum looks lost and TZ looks unmotivated. The whole team looks like its the first day of practice.
Y'all have described the current situation <t>So now, what does Weis do? Go with the young guys across the board? Dumb down the playbook? How he adjusts will be interesting.</t>
I would hope he continues to learn how to be a college head coach. The O linemen he has playing never learned the fundamentals. This is not a problem with the prior regime, it's with his staff. Changes have to be made. Remember, CW was not a head coach. He didn't show up on campus with a "staff." He was a pro O coordinator who never coached in college before. He had to hire a totally new staff based on availability, reputation and recommendation. (staying with the Pats until the end of the playoffs certainly hurt recruiting of players AND coaches.) He's already found a new DC. I'd be very surprised if he doesn't have a new O line coach next season. And the receivers coach may also be new. Charlie can scheme points with a team skilled in the fundamentals (as there were in the pros) but his strength is not in teaching young players. He's going to need a top staff for that. Stay tuned.
Well I certainly hope that was the bottom and that we will start working our way back up the ladder. The first thing Charlie has to do is make sure he doesn't lose this team. It's a young team and if he can keep them together and fight their way through the bad times and improve next week and find a way to score some points and maybe even win. I don't know how good Mich State is, on paper before the season they were not as good as the teams we've played though and they didn't look like world beaters yesterday. But then we're the cure for whatever ails your team so far. The second thing he has to do if find the guys who want to work their butts off and win. The third thing he has to do is keep his recruiting class together. Those 19 guys are the key to turning this program around. I had hoped we would add to those 19 with some pretty special players, but that might be a tough job for the staff right now. The 4th thing he needs to do is to critically evaluate his staff, no misplaced loyalties. If the OL coach needs to go, then he needs to go. Does anybody worry that Clausens fumbles and play looked like the worst of Ron Powlus??? Does it scare you that Ron is his coach? The 5th thing he needs to do is to shut the f$$k up, he talks way too much to the media, lectures them, pontificates, etc. He's getting a big dose of humble pie right now. If he can salvage the season and some how get a couple of wins in the first 8 games and then finish the season strong then he'll survive. He won't survive an 0-8 start and a 4-8 or worse season. Oh he won't get fired, even though the media will be calling for it as the only fair thing to do given that Willingham was fired after 3 seasons. But his contract is way too big and he'll get his 5 years. But next year will be incredibly tough for him, he's a hard worker but that's not enough. You have to produce. It was a huge mistake for Charlie to have wasted time putting in that stupid Spread/Option offense.
Terry, I think you make some excellent points! For the sake of the ND faithful, I hope he turn things around. What ND is going thru now, I would not wish on my worst enemy. Lets face the facts, this could happen to any team and I can just imagine the fallout if it would happen here in Columbus. Reading the SB Tribune this morning, the local press is really not helping the situation. Don
I... <t>Started this thread and being a ND diehard in Houston since I was thirteen and loving the university and program obviously this is about as bad as it can get short of going 0-12.<br/> IMO Weis is the guy for the Irish for many reasons but to get to the nuts and bolts he and this staff can recruit. They don't bring in a total of 31 prospects for the year for visits and sign six O-Lineman over a three year period which if that as a fan of ANY program would and should alarm you. We know who I am talking about and that is all I will mention about the guy.<br/> What does infuriate me is its taken three pitiful performances by the O-Line to make any changes on who is playing as happened yesterday. Eight guys played Saturday but Duncan and Sullivan continue to show up out there ans embarrass. Even a goof ball like Paul McGuire said several times "this line blocks nobody." After three games I maintain CW has to take a hard look at Latina, real hard. That should be determined at years end but come on.<br/> I know we say how much better we look on defense and I will agree with that but the top problem is talent there. LORD to watch that D-Line with 244 LB DE John Ryan try and keep a back from turning the corner for 60 minutes is painful. He has company as the NT is not a NT and to watch a Florida, LSU USC etc play as I do each week and look at the linebackers we put on the field in comparison agin its painful. Not only are the ND linebackers small they are slow. No talent there at all. <br/> On the secondary we started to see some of the 06 play yesterday again from this years verson of Cliff"highway 15" Jefferson in Ambrose Wooden. I wish I could see a stat as to who has the career record for most pas int calls on a player. He would lead the pack easily. Also as a senior never locates the football and is beat in coverage with ease but he is always on the field in spite of the staff talking of so many more players available this year. Amazing. Z looks to me just going through the motions out there and considering the play of everyone I'm to the point of who really could blame him.<br/> Charlie says training camp starts Sunday at ND. OK fine with me but until the great class of recruits arrives next fall the talent level is what it is now. Lets see some execution from somebody as I sit down next Saturday and tune in a home game versus MS. At least be competitive for sixty minutes and show some improvement.<br/> <br/> ON the National scene USC and LSU are to me a clear 1/2.</t>