Interesting article by Stewart Mandel: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/stewart_mandel/05/31/mailbag/index.html In this article the question is not what I propose above but I think you can draw a conclusion that a more competitive conference has made the Miamis and FSUs of the world more likely to appear average. My feeling is that they are undergoing what PennSt did when they joined the Big Ten. There is not much chance in a conference to selectively schedule your opponents in way that allows for rest in between big games and in a conference almost every game is a big game in one season or another. Rivalries are created that were not once there such as FSU-NC State etc. and Clemson or NC and Miami. The pure physical nature of playing conference rivals week in and week out takes it's toll on teams that are not used to such a rigid schedule. This doesn't mean that this same phenomenon is present in a relatively weak conference as witnessed by FSU's dominance of the ACC in the 90s and subsequent national success by the Criminoles in postseason. However, once the ACC as a whole became more competitive then the noles downturn began. Miami more or less jumped right into the fire when they joined the ACC and it has taken it's toll on the canes.
When year in and year out the same teams are the top of a conference and the same teams are the bottom of the conference I think your argument fails. Also when Penn State first entered the B10 they had what many considered an extremely favorable schedule. I forget wheter it was off weeks before Ohio State and Michigan or if it was they didn't ever have to play them in the same season. Also I just can't buy that because a team is a conf foe that they are ipso facto a tough foe. Also Tenn has had a very favorable schedule it seems to me in a lot of years, off weeks before Alabama, weak foes the week following, etc. Also it seems to me the decline of FSU has more to do with they have Jeff Bowden as the OCoord instead of Mark Richt and that the decline of Miami has more to do with the head coach there and the eventual graduation of the talent that Butch Davis recruited vs joining the ACC. Joining the ACC (from weaker BE) hasn't seemed to hurt Va.Tech or Boston College. Terry
There is no question that a tough conference schedule can take its toll on a team. Penn State started its slide when it joined the Big Ten as an example. On the other hand, if you play a tough independent schedule like Notre Dame, a schedule that takes you coast to coast, different time zones and climates can be debilitating as well.
Terry, I do believe that the Big Ten took a heavy toll on Penn State....that along with JoePa falling behind in recruiting. PSU was used to playing Temple and Rutgers in the weeks before maybe a tough one with Alabama. Don't underestimate a 7-4 or a 6-5 Minn team with a decent defense and a good running game and what that might do to your team say the week before the big Michigan game. Even 3 or 4 weeks in a row of middle of the road conference teams can take it's toll because they want to beat the crap out of you if they can and it takes a physical toll. USC has been where they have been mostly because of talent but also the Pac 10 as a whole has not been chock full of competitive teams. Sure an Oregon or Cal pops up but the middle of the Pac 10 pack has had poor defenses and probably haven't been too physical on the Trojans. The SEC has it's share of middle of the road teams to be sure but defense and running games are usually part of the package that they bring every Saturday. Plus...like the Big 10 the SEC brings more average to above average bowl bound teams to the party on any given Saturday as well. The ACC now with BC, Miami and VaTech added along with the resurgence of NC State, Va, Md and NC in recent years has plenty of pretty decent physical teams to throw at you so I expect the going to be tough for the ACC nationally. Again, the end result of tough conference play (note I said tough...not average to weak...Big 12?) is a lack of a dominating team and that does not allow for a nationally prominent team at the end. Without having to play UF I think Georgia could have been one of those teams a couple of years back but in addition to the other SEC toughies the Dawgs had to beat the Gators too and couldn't pull it off. LSU managed to tie for the title one year but they were lucky to do so because they actually lost to SEC foe Florida AT HOME that same season. I still think in light of this that a 13-0 Auburn team was truly shortchanged in 2004. Going unbeaten in the SEC is quite an accomplishment.
If we take the argument to it's logical conclusion, then we'd have to say that 99% of college teams play a really tough schedules because they play in a conference. All conference games are tough because, well they are conference games, and SEC fans wouldn't have any right to knock Texas for being in the Big 12. After all it's a conference and all those "conference" foes really play you tough. No Texas has it easy because they play in a weak conference or only play 1 game a year (OU), it wouldn't be possible because by definition conference foes are tough.
Of course we'll never know about that Auburn team since they didn't get a chance. But we might do some extrapolation, they played USC the 2 years before that and USC beat them both times and the game at Auburn in 2003 when Auburn was pretty highly ranked to start the season was a blowout by USC. So while you can't say for sure, I'd have to put my money on the 2004 USC team being a better team than the 2004 Auburn team, plus that Auburn team played a really weak non-conference schedule.
I don't see your avatar either, Terry. Kinda blanks out the whole thing since 70% of the Skybox posts are from you. :wink: stu
OK I see the problem for some reason the server that hosts the file is down, I can't connect with it. I see the avatar because it's in my cache. I know it's tough but you guys will have to live with the blank till they resolve the server issue! Terry
You need to have your avatar selections uploaded to the always available Skybox free web space. :wink:
It seems to be that regardless of conference, most teams have 2-4 "circled" games a year. By that I mean games that are circled on a team's schedule when the year begins. Take for instance Michigan. I'd expect them to have the OSU, MSU and ND games circled. For OSU it is probably Tex., PSU, and U of M. For SC it's probably UCLA, ND and maybe Cal. Not all games are circled by both teams. For instance, while Vandy probably has the Tenn. game circled, I doubt that the Vols do. I imagine Fla., Ala. and Ga. would get more attention. It would be really bad if every game you played was a circled game on the other team's schedule. Just ask Charlie Weis.
:? This year we play Georgia Tech, Penn State, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, UCLA and Southern Cal...that's seven circles! When do we get to join a conference so we can have some breathers? .............JO'Co
I think Miami and FSU having each other in the conference now and a Championship game to boot makes their schedule tougher. Before Miami, Boston College and Va Tech came into the ACC both the Big East and the ACC were cakewalks for many years. Now there is some competetion. Gator Bill
Service academies <t>JO'Co,<br/> I think maybe Army, Navy, Air Force would be considered breathers, at least by most folks. You really think Ga. Tech should be circled? For Bama our circled games are always Tenn., LSU and of course Auburn and then on alternating basis UGA and UF, but Ole Miss, MSU and Vandy are not, and I put them on a par with some you had circled and I suspect you consider them breathers.</t>
For the most part I agree ND is circled on many teams calendar but the home and home nature of an every year opponent and especially the threat of losing ground in a conference race is not there. I don't agree Terry that 99% of teams have a tough go in a conference because as I pointed out teams like the F$U Criminoles were sky high in the toothless ACC for their first 10 years in that conference and not because the nolies were THAT superior. Now the ACC is anything but a cakewalk to the NC game.
KP If I'm not mistaken, Ga. Tech beat Auburn (and Miami) last year. They can play with anybody. I agree with you about Army and Navy but Air Force has had some fine teams and has played ND tough more often than not.
I have no problem with that <r>But the same reasoning then extends to Ole Miss (look who they have beat in the last couple of years) and So. Carolina. And like ND, almost everyone circles the Bama game (a Vandy win over Bama makes their decade), and the same for Ole Miss and now MSU, and So. Miss. always plays us tough also. Ga. Tech pulls off a couple of wins every couple of years but I'm not sure that they are on a par with Mich or PSU. Y'all do play coast to coast and the travel factor is definitely different than us conference guys but other than that some years the SOS is up and some years it's down. WVU, BC, AFA, some years those are breathers as well and some years they aren't. <E></E></r>
:roll: When was the last time Notre Dame's schedule was "down?" I must have missed that... BTW- If the Irish schedule is too soft for ya, why doesn't Alabama offer to play us? Are you guys any good? You said that Georgia Tech shouldn't be circled, but Bama is playing Hawaii that day. Are you sure the Tide couldn't have tried just a tad harder to improve our schedule strength? How about October 28? Yes I know...its hard to play non-cons in the middle of the "tough" SEC schedule, but Alabama just happens to have scheduled a non-con that day anyway......with Florida International. Since that's the same day the Irish play Navy, it would seem that a fair-minded person might think that the reason we have to play Navy every year, is because schools like Alabama are ducking us... .................JO'Co