Any ideas?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Motorcity Gator, Apr 18, 2021.

  1. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    .... on how to prevent this from continually happening? Do you propose this crazed maniac of a kid had his 2nd amendment right to purchase the assault rifles he murdered 8 people with?
    "The 19-year-old who killed eight people at a FedEx facility in Indianapolis late Thursday night purchased the two assault rifles used in the attack legally months after being investigated by the FBI due to his potential for violence, according to the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department.
    The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms traced the two weapons, and police learned that Brandon Hole purchased one in July of 2020 and one in September of 2020, police said in a tweet.
    Yet months earlier, in March 2020, Hole's mother told law enforcement that he might try to "commit suicide by cop," the FBI Indianapolis office said in a statement.
    FBI Indianapolis Special Agent in Charge Paul Keenan said Hole was placed on an immediate detention mental health temporary hold by the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department. He also said a shotgun was seized at Hole's residence."
     
  2. gipper

    gipper Well-Known Member

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  3. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    Always a "butwhatabout" with you Gipper.

    And per usual your scales of measurement do not equate.

    I don't think the families of the 8 slaughtered FedEx workers are too worried about Hunter Biden right now.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2021
  4. gipper

    gipper Well-Known Member

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    Here's another one, let's pass a law against murder. That should do it just pass a law right?
     
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  5. RECcane

    RECcane Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm, let’s first give prayer to the victims of this massacre and their families. I’m rapidly approaching 60, I’ve been around guns as long as I can remember, dad was a policeman, us kids knew better than to ever touch his dresser that held his gun and ammo. Lol, the entire 38 caliber revolver which is really not much in the way of firepower.

    Fast forward, our high school allowed guns and gun racks at school, we even did maintenance in shop class on them. Amazing before the swat team would swoop down for an arrest a generation of kids had guns at school and zero shootings occurred.

    Passing it along I raised another generation with guns in the house, always locked up and off limits until it was time to use them. My son who carefully watched was instructed in the safety measures of wielding a firearm, maintaining them and the right as an American to legally own them. The fringe benefits was a boy has friends so I taught an additional 5 or 6 young lads gun safety and shooting skills along with we respect all things living unless we have plans to eat it for dinner

    Now we are faced with unfortunately another shooting, tragic, kills my soul to hear of another one. So should we bypass what generations have assumed is legal gun ownership and just gestapo away what a “portion” of Americans who have no identity to guns or ownership. Totally ignore the thousands, no millions who actually do in this country as their right as Americans

    I feel this may cause a bit of a quagmire in the reality of constitutional rights
     
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  6. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    Not sure Ralph why legally acquired guns by legally sane people would be under fire from this kind of incident. I don’t think anyone Dem or GOP thinks crazy killers should have the right to purchase assault weapons. How would preventing it infringe on your family traditions?
     
  7. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    I haven't seen you make one single cogent post on what your solution to the problem is, why don't you make your solution known.
     
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  8. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    My solution is simple Terry and I have offered it before but the alt right is vehemently against infringing on anyone's 2nd amendment rights..... including the rights of those known to be mentally unstable.
    The police were there at this sad kid's home a few months before and removed a shotgun because obviously he was a threat to either himself or others.
    Any weapon's purchaser should be thoroughly checked out and denied for red flags and especially if that person is buying what could be construed as an assault type weapon.
    We need to STOP making excuses in the name of the alt right second amendment people.... an amendment that was never designed or intended to equip crazed murderers with assault weapons.
     
  9. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    I can't see that as being a solution, however I'm all for background checks, waiting periods, and red flags. I think though that there are already laws on the books about background checks and stuff, but they might be different state to state I don't know. It's just that I don't think that is enough to stop these mass shootings. How do you verify that the guy buying the gun isn't planning a mass killing attempt? You can't.

    I don't know the solution, but it's not as simple as background checks/waiting periods and red flags.
     
  10. gipper

    gipper Well-Known Member

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    We saw what happened during prohibition, we've seen the endless war on drugs and so now it's time to start a war on guns. Same pie in sky hopes...same inevitable failure.
     
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  11. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    "I'm all for background checks, waiting periods, and red flags."

    And so with all of those things in place don't you think this kid would have stood out as unsuitable for an assault weapon purchase?
     
  12. Sid

    Sid Well-Known Member

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    The laws are in place re: background checks, waiting periods, and red flags, and IMO could use some tweaking - e.g., background checks if bought at gun shows or from individuals - but without enforcement, they have no teeth. Here is an excerpt from a local (Indianapolis) article explaining why the local prosecutor didn't hold a red flag hearing:
    This is an example of what I mean by "tweaking". In cases like this, perhaps there should be more time - reasonably determined - to make the case. The bottom line problem IMO is the lack of tools for enforcement of the laws already on the books. Of course, this is only one case with the ability through hindsight to say what could have been done. Unfortunately, when it comes to mass shootings, every situation is different in some way.
     
  13. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    Sid when another young teen from Illinois can take his rifle and go 30 miles to murder two people he doesn't know and has never met in Kenosha, Wi. and yet be defended by Fox News and other alt right individuals for his actions then we have a seriously demented problem going on here in America.
     
  14. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    I don't know. It does turn out that as everybody knows that there was a process for a red flag alert on him but that the process to follow that up was never completed by the DA's office. But is it the same for everyone of the shooters, even half of them?

    I don't own, never have owned, and have never shot a weapon. So I don't have the same feelings that those who do own them, responsibly like Tom, Stu, and Scott, and as such I'm not very sensitive to much more stringent gun laws. Germany has very strict gun laws, they haven't eliminated mass shootings but they do have fewer than we do, I wouldn't be opposed to some variation of that but it will be a hard sell to the American gun owner.

    Unfortunately we do have a violent society. Right now everybody is talking about Assualt style weapons, but hand gun violence is worse, and stringent laws in places like Chicago haven't made a dent in the deaths by handguns. We can't keep dangerous drugs that kill people off the streets no matter what the law is as gipper said, and unfortunately the same is probably true for guns of all types. Something fundamental has to change in society and I'm not especially hopeful.
     
  15. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    Has it been established that his intent when buying that gun was to go and murder those 2 people?

    I can't defend people taking weapons to public rallies, even though legal. The problem is how do you prevent that from happening? Background checks on that kid probably come up clean, and probably no red flags.

    These situations are powder kegs and throw in weapons and bad things are going to happen.

    How about how we prevent the almost daily gun violence in the USA? Every weekend somebody is shot in a parking lot after an altercation in a club here in Houston. They rarely are shot by a rifle, it's almost always a handgun.

    Got to change the culture.
     
  16. gipper

    gipper Well-Known Member

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    When an Atlanta police officer who was attacked and then the target of a taser kills the criminal and loses his job in hours and is charged with a crime, while a Capitol police officer can kill an unarmed woman climbing in a window without any repercussions, we have a seriously demented problem going on in America.
     
  17. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    As I've said I don't know the answer to gun violence whether it a Police Officer shooting a civilian or a nut case going off on family, friends, co-workers, schools, etc. I do think that even if you confiscated or demanded all guns be turned into the Feds/State/Locals and only allow those who can demonstrate an need for a weapon (hunters would be a large category) keep them but only in a govt regulated site where you had to go and check them out and then return them, would solve the problem. It would create a huge black market for starters and it'd be unconstitutional for the second part.

    In the end though, Sid has the right idea. There are laws, they have some holes, those need to be patched so that it is hard or impossible to get a weapon without passing strict background checks. It won't put a stop to it, but maybe just maybe reduce it and maybe make the nation feel a little more at ease. However in the end it's a culture change that needs to happen.
     
  18. Bobdawolverweasel

    Bobdawolverweasel Well-Known Member

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    TOK,

    Rittenhouse did not buy the gun. He gave his adult friend the money from his stimulus check to purchase the rifle. His friend is being prosecuted under the “straw-man” purchaser law which makes buying a gun for a minor’s use a felony and the friend is now facing a possible 25-year prison term. So, in this case, there was a law enacted to try and prevent minors from owning a gun and the law is being enforced but it did not prevent the crime from taking place.

    I believe Australia enacted a wide ranging prohibition against gun ownership and citizens did comply with the law with compensation paid for guns turned over to the government. But, with the SC interpreting the 2nd Amendment as providing a personal right to own a firearm, such a program would be deemed unconstitutional here. Of course, what is binding precedent today can be overruled in the future by a change in the court’s membership.
     
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  19. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    I'm pretty clueless about law/constitution. Would it be possible to change the 2nd amendment with out another amendment to the Constitution, which would take forever if it could even be accomplished? If we have to rely on states to change their gun laws and also survive constitutional challenge that will be a tough road to hoe, I seem to remember a lot of issues with tougher handgun laws and the Supreme Court challenges. It has to be hard to make changes in the 2nd as even with a Liberal Majority we've not seen the type of legislation that the anti-gun lobby would like to see pass.
     
  20. gipper

    gipper Well-Known Member

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    All you'd have to do is appoint a bunch of leftist ideologues to the Supreme Court who wouldn't blink an eye at allowing gun laws that are in violation of the Constitution.