You still haven't told us who, in your opinion, is effing the consumers? You keep talking about healthcare as if it is a single enterprise with an uncaring, unethical, omnipotent CEO at the top of the company responsible for indiscriminate price increases and monopolistic gouging where there exists no viable competitive alternatives .....there is no such company. Where is this enterprise? Isn't it true that healthcare cost are driven by an amalgamation of many, many different industries/providers including but not limited to docs, nurses, pharmacists, hospitals, labs, makers of diagnostic equipment, medical suppliers, drug manufacturers, distributors, DENTISTS?, researchers, et al???? So who is it? Who are these people you claim are effing the consumer? All of them? In every company, in every sector bound by one air-tight nefarious bond to work collectively in concert to "eff" the consumer?
BT this article touches on some of the reasons healthcare rises so quickly: http://www.healthbeatblog.com/2009/02/the-disease-the-exorbitant-cost-of-us-healthcare-the-symptom-the-uninsured-and-underinsured.html I realize it's convoluted and intricate with many players. The one constant is that too many have opportunities to raise exorbitant profits by controlling or influencing who gets what for care and that drives the cost up for everyone else. You may call that free market capitalism.....I say it is time we cannot sustain that unbridled greed now at the exorbitant expense to everyone else needing healthcare. Just as this country cannot further sustain the increasing national debt levels neither can we sustain predatory pricing from industries like healthcare and energy without putting in new checks and balances to forestall the fleecing of America into the poor house. That may sound socialistic to you but I prefer to think of it as the evolution of captitalism. Always in this country we have monitored and regulated those industries that create monopolistic opportunities for greed at the expense of all. It's nothing new. The problem is a lack of real competition.....real downward competitive pressure on pricing like that which I have always experienced in my business and which George experiences in his business. Until something is done to create that true competitive environment then these industries will continue to legally gouge and fleece and seek record profit after record profit at the expense of people who have no choice in matter but to pony up.
One thing interesting in that statement is the fact of wages earned by the "Big Bad Corporations" I have worked for many are "everday Joes" who are incorporated in their business but you would have a hard time separating them from your next door neighbor. They struggle to not only do their job and get their employees paid but unseen is the fact that they work hours beyond what their employees call the end of the day and hope they actually get paid. "Getting paid" such a simple phrase that many people take for granted, it comes at the end of the week or maybe two depending on your payroll setup. In business it is something you count on but know after years of experience not to be counted on. In the 19 years of working in my current position we have "not" been paid $370,000 dollars. This means we had signed written contracts that in print guaranteed us to get paid for the work completed or product sold but the party involved decided for whatever reason it was not in their best interest to pay us. When George explains his blueprint of the business he started what is not being said is the blood, sweat and tears he has gone through to make it work. His entire life is tied up in making this work and it is pretty much his life since he undertook the task of making this enterprise. If you are not aware of his struggles or never experienced the good with the bad he endures everyday it is impossible to understand. If all your involvement with the companies you have worked at are the receiving end of the a paycheck you are not appreciating the endurance test it takes to put it in your hand... And yes this is probably a corporation or an LLC that the media or political heads talk about as evil and what is wrong with America.
And believe me.....I didn't have the success I enjoyed at my previous company without investing copious quantities of all of those things. At the end if the day though I was the one on the short end of a tough decision by the owner. Cest la vie...
Indeed it is and therein lies the point I've been trying to make with you.... Your assertion has been for years that Bush and/or his Republican cronies were responsible for the rapid escalation in health care costs and you have asserted that point to death without the slightest of credible arguments to support your claim.....in truth my Gator friend, the cost of healthcare in this country has risen at a rate greater than incomes in every decade that you have been on the planet through administrations of every conceivable political stripe. In fact, during the 8 years of the Bush administration healthcare costs rose at an annual rate that was materially less than the average of the prior 50 years.....perhaps we can lay that particular fairy tale of yours to rest.
1.7 billion......just in fines. Doesn't that make you wonder just how much fraud there was? And yet Rick Scott....the GOP guv of Fl. ran off with a 10 million dollar severance package afterward and a million dollar annual "consulting" fee. The Florida GOP at least was "friendly" to a guy very closely associated to billions of dollars of false costs added to our healthcare system. My contention is that the GOP is too friendly.....too willing to look the other way when it comes to big business costs negatively impacting average middle class Americans who have no choices.....no competitive alternatives.. That attitude and one of condoning or promoting companies and individuals like Rick Scott will only add to the problem.
It's no use.....you only see what you want to see - factual or not - and either ignore or dismiss anything that would, could or should yield a different conclusion. You reach a conclusion then seek only anecdotes - factual or not - to support your assertion often in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary..... It was Bill Clinton's Justice Department that conducted a massive investigation and brought the case against HCA that led to several indictments and convictions of those found responsible and Scott was not one of them. Indeed it was under on the Clinton watch that the fraudulent activity took place. Was the Clinton administration or Clinton's FBI "too friendly" and/or too "willing to look the other way"? Is it really your contention that there is more fraudulent activity conducted in federal entitlement programs or any federal program under GOP administrations? Really....? It just doesn't stand up to even the slightest of objective scrutiny or rational examination.....yet you will continue to make such claims. :roll:
Here are personal examples: In 1986 I could fly Delta Airlines between Detroit and Florida RT for about $250-$280.00 In 2011.....2 months ago and 25 years later... I flew Delta Airlines between Detroit and Florida for $260.00 Obviously a ton of price competition and nothing mysterious going on there.......just brutal price competition where every individual has a choice of whether to use the service......not use it.....or choose a cheaper carrier or alternative. Health insurance is a monopolistic different animal. In 1992 my family healthcare premium cost was around $200.00 monthly and in 2001 it had risen to only $285.00 monthly.....an increase of approx. 40%. In 2008.....my last year with that same company it was $845.00 monthly....an increase during the Bush years of approx. 300%. The Clintons were not "friendly" to "Big Healthcare" and so the price pressure was downward. Bush......was friendly to Big Anything Business..........ask Kenneth Lay if he were still alive. Competition for healthcare for me in those years? No....nada....no choices. I worked for the same company all of those years and whatever they dished out for healthcare expense I had to eat it. Airlines.....held prices......stiff competition. Healthcare premiums.....exorbitant increase....especially under Bush.....no competition or price pressure. BT....you extrapolate....obfuscate......add your own brand of BT economics to this example all you want but it was my personal experience. Obama comes along and upsets the apple cart again and gets the GOP and "Big Healthcare" all riled up about reform.......and they don't want any part of it. It smells rotten to me.
Scott started his company in 1987. Six years later Clinton took office and then: "The Columbia/HCA fraud case is one of the largest examples of Medicare fraud in U.S. history. Numerous New York Times stories, beginning in 1996, began scrutinizing Columbia/HCA's business and Medicare billing practices. These culminated in the company being raided by Federal agents searching for documents and eventually the ousting of the corporation's CEO, Rick Scott, by the board of directors.[13] Among the crimes uncovered were doctors being offered financial incentives to bring in patients, falsifying diagnostic codes to increase reimbursements from Medicare and other government programs, and billing the government for unnecessary lab tests,[14] though Scott personally was never charged with any wrongdoing. HCA wound up pleading guilty to more than a dozen criminal and civil charges and paying fines totaling $1.7 billion. In 1999, Columbia/HCA changed its name back to HCA, Inc. In 2001, HCA reached a plea agreement with the U.S. government that avoided criminal charges against the company and included $95 million in fines.[15] In late 2002, HCA agreed to pay the U.S. government $631 million, plus interest, and pay $17.5 million to state Medicaid agencies, in addition to $250 million paid up to that point to resolve outstanding Medicare expense claims.[16] In all, civil law suits cost HCA more than $1.7 billion to settle, including more than $500 million paid in 2003 to two whistleblowers.[15] Clinton's administration was certainly NOT friendly to Rick Scott.
Another Shocker there. Here's an idea. Let's force all those greedy pharmaceutical companies out of business. Well hire the latest GED recipients to grind up home remedies for you to take. We'll get rid of those greedy doctors, dentists, and worst of all, nurse managers, and put in place people that don't have those bothersome student loans to pay back. We'll hire Juan's tree surgery and fish bait company to provide medical services. That'll get healthcare costs down. Dave, All you do is complain, bitch, and moan. What do you propose as a fix for healthcare without myself or future generations paying it for you? My instructors complain about schedule issues. It is the ones that provide alternate solutions that get the fixes faster.
It is your personal experience that your share of the health insurance premiums that your company offered you through the company sponsored plan based upon the provider of your company's choosing increased at a greater rate in years when Bush was in office than they did when Clinton was in office and therefore your conclusion is that the Bushies, GOP and "Big Healthcare" are in cahoots and responsible for spiraling healthcare costs? Health care costs increased at double the rate of the Bush admin during the Carter presidency, 50% greater during the Kennedy/Johnson admin....what does that tell you? ...and health insurance industry with the exorbitant increase in premiums posted obscene and excessive profits......that has just never happened. There are dozens of industry's with greater revenue and earnings growth and larger profit margins than those modest margins earned in what is truly a lousy, unattractive business.... I just don't know what to tell you other than to ask, based upon your personal perspective, right now from where you sit, look outside and tell me if you think the earth is round? I know after looking out the window that you might not believe this, but it is......no matter what you saw.
I believe I have discussed this above. Create real....viable options and competition so that people can choose between legitimate.....tightly regulated providers from a legitimacy and quality standpoint. Closely monitor the industry to prevent fraud and gross exorbitant profits in companies that have no competition for their products or services. Like airlines.....and like people who have to accept salary cuts in order to keep their jobs.....healthcare providers will either get out of the business or accept the cuts and be happy with the profits they are limited to. Close regulation and scrutiny is needed.......it's time to play hardball. You don't like hardball? Go home.....
Let me give you guys an alternate viewpoint. We all know that Urgent Care Clinics charge significantly less for care than hospital Emergency Departments do. Know why? These Urgent Care Clinics can take or refuse to take any insurance or require payment at time of service. That means Medicare and Medicaid (low government reimbursement) is not accepted. And if you do not have insurance or money they can send you away thus low cost. An ED must see and treat anyone requesting care. Doesn't matter if you can pay or not. Doesn't matter if you have insurance or not. And there is a huge amount of charges that remain unpaid. Now factor in the points that there must be the supplies and personal on hand to provide all that care. And the government requirements are huge. Also there are contracts with the insurance companies that limit the amount of reimbursement paid and the patient cannot be billed for anything over the contracted amount. All those factors severely hamstring the hospital based healthcare industry.
Uh, if I recall, allowing providers to compete across state boundaries was one of the options this administration was absolutely NOT wanting to discuss, instead ramming a god-awful, socialistic program down the throats of those of us that still pay taxes, in the name of "improving the health care system". Rather than exploding the bloat that is everything government, they could have done FAR more good by allowing the competition you so deeply believe in. BT - ever feel like you're playing whack-a-mole? http://www.theskybox.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5878 http://www.theskybox.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=6410
It appears as if the fact pattern would suggest differently..... Why then would he allow the company to engage in perpetrating such massive fraud during his term? Right under the watchful nose of his crack Cabinet Secretary Shalala and Attorney General Reno? Why then would he let the man go "Scott-free" with millions in his pocket when there were others charged and convicted? There are those that would suggest that based upon those observations that there is a clear and compelling case to be made that the Clintons, Reno and Shalala were clearly in cahoots with Scott, perhaps to the point of designing the scheme but at minimum certainly got a piece of the action.....
Yes I do Kes.....I should know better. It's pointless.....he is certainly entitled to his opinion that the earth is flat.
Given the eventual 1.7 billion dollar fine stemming from an investigation that began early in Clinton's second term it doesn't appear to me that Clinton was very close or friendly with Rick Scott or his company. Certainly not in the sense that Bush was close with his good buddy Ken "Kenny Boy"Lay of Enron.