I have no say in what I am charged by my employer for healthcare. So yes....I have to deal with that and I choose not to get it and I have to work it out so that we can get my wife's healthcare instead. Some people do not have that choice. But we can all choose not to vote for the SOBs who think it's just fine...."the way of the world"...etc. that saw such an exorbitant rise in healthcare costs from 2001 to 2008. :wink: 8) How's that action for ya?
I forgot your basic premise....it's all Bush's fault. Sorry pal, the statute of limitations has run out on that argument....he hasn't been in office for 3 years. This administration has had ample time and in fact has spent the vast majority of their time in office (while not campaigning/attending fund raisers) to design policies to address the economy and healthcare and indeed has crafted packages costing us in excess of a trillion dollars, savaged the credit of this great country to promote his economic and healthcare agenda......since you're paying out the a$$ for them I would suggest that if you've got an issue with those policies and/or their results, you need to take it up with those responsible for them.
I think what has happened to negatively impact jobs and and personal income is more of a reaction....a strategy to cope with the pressures of the $5/hr economies of the world. The work is the same.....the value of that work has been downgraded. Not an easy fix.......and certainly not the "fault" of the workers......but they tend to get the lion's share of it in your arguments. And the rest of us have to deal with it because of the moribund economy. Neither me or my wife have received a raise in the 2.5 years we have lived in Florida.....not because we haven't been praised for our work and our results but because no one is getting a raise in our places of employment. The mentality is...."lucky to have a job"..... So since it is damned near impossible to improve the income side I'll vote like a SOB against those that feel corporations should eff the hell out of the consumer when they can grab those consumers by the balls and stick it to them for services that they cannot do without.......like healthcare.
Hmmmm.....hey Krebsie, how does it work out for ya when you eff the hell out of your customers? Perhaps that's something you could think about pursuing in this poor economy? I look forward to a full report.....
Didn't realize that George was in a business that provides an essential service to an average American that he has no choice but to buy and has no or limited opportunities to find a better deal. Good busniess to be in George.
Well then clarify for us.....you pull so many cards off the deck, your complaints morph more readily than my son's old transformer toys. Who exactly is effing the consumer?
Dave, As you usual you twist my words and add your own meaning to them to suit your own agenda. I'll try to write slow this time..... I'm saying that there are a LOT of potential workers out there with a skill set so lacking that $7-10 / hr is an adequate reflection of their abilities to contribute. These are people who lack writing skills, math skills, have poor attendance and punctuality and no specific skills to warrant more compensation and they do nothing to improve their own marketability. Now in your dream world everybody is entitled to a comfortable living no matter how little they have to offer. If you have ever run a business for any length of time you know the fallacy of that premise. Oh yes, if I "stick it to my effin customers" I'm out of business, I lose my house, my credit rating and my reputation. But you wouldn't understand that, would you.
George......what product do you sell and to whom? "$7-10 / hr is an adequate reflection of their abilities to contribute. These are people who lack writing skills, math skills, have poor attendance and punctuality and no specific skills to warrant more compensation and they do nothing to improve their own marketability. " Agreed.....with that specific group of people. The problem is that there are many people out there supremely more qualified but who are running out of options and settling for these low paying jobs. And that leads to what some economists have been saying is our long term jobs problem and ultimately an economic abyss for the rest of us. Unless we can find an export market to keep us humming we are losing a portion of the U.S. consumer middle class to the lower class.....people who used to contribute to our economy who are now unable financially to help us sustain our economic well being......people who cannot afford healthcare and who cannot get jobs that reasonably provide it. Economic burdens rather than contributors. Maybe there isn't a damned thing we can do about it because they have no money to better educate themselves and we as a country are in the process of cutting education budgets every chance we get. It's a catch 22 and we are stuck in it. Interesting article on the subject of consumerism....or the lack of it: http://scotterb.wordpress.com/2010/04/05/post-consumerism/
But it's so much easier to obfuscate and act obtuse when the facts just aren't there to support your assertions. When you haven't a leg to stand on, attack attack attack.
Specifically I was talking about healthcare. But you could probably throw your monthly energy bill in there as well. Two things people can't live without and about which they have little to say about price gouging.
You need to be more specific than that.....or are you contending that every provider of healthcare services is effing their customers? Docs, nurses, pharmacists, hospitals, labs, makers of diagnostic equipment, medical suppliers, drug manufacturers, distributors, DENTISTS?, researchers, et al....all of them???? Energy utilities are effing their customers as well?
:twisted: Wow.... MG you so owe George an apology.... you are beyond rude. and if you actually read some of the other comments I mean read them you would know wht George does but he doesnt owe you S_ _ T he doesnt owe you an explanation George is a great person a caring empolyer you treat him so very badly how dare you. He is a hard working person and deserves the success he has. He worries and cares about his employees , you on the other hand remind me of what my idea of a Democrat is w. your hand out and give me give me give me. its all about how things effect YOU and that is so selfish and then you have the nerve to talk down to the gentlemen here that are hard working Attorneys businessmen doctors teachers etc the each one of them exemplifies the standards of hardworking honest decent people doing the best they can. and why because they are successful at what they do , you judge them and you dont even KNOW them.
That couldn't be further from the truth. You know me less than you claim I know George. By the way.....this was my only comment directed back as a response to what George said: "Not surprising George that you mirror the widely held GOP viewpoint that anyone who needs a job.....who is being raped by healthcare costs.....who isn't making $180,000.00/year.....is "dependent"....'looking for gov't. hand-outs".....is "uneducated".... " My point was not to denigrate George but I wanted to make the point that there are millions upon millions of honest, hard working Americans out there who aren't raving conservatives and who ARE educated and who do NOT have their hand out.
:twisted: Ummm Lets seee. I guess its all how you look at things. I do know george and respect him for who is is . I have also known alot of people as yourself maybe not you but every much like you Sales Repw/ nice cushy incomes frm sales they have fought so hard for. I used to work for the worlds largest plastics company as administrative asst to the president and Vp of Sales and I ran the sales office w/ 14 Sales Representatives average income well over 6figures so I can see both sides of the pictures. but that still doesnt give you the right to be rude to these gentleman who are the Bosses/ who do run their own buisness's just because you fell cheated. and they are successful in their hard earned accomplishments
Yeah....that certainly wouldn't be right at all if that was the sole basis for our divergent political opinions and philosophical disagreements.
Diane, Thank you for the kind words. Dave doesn't owe me an apology; he doesn't know what I do or who I am, has never worked in an ownership capacity and has a completely different outlook than I do. Dave, I own an office technology company. I started it from scratch in 1980. I have a photo of myself on May 1 of that year ( 1st day ) sitting in my office on the phone. There was no one on the other end because I had no customers at that time. My chair was a bucket of spackling and my office had no walls. As soon as the shot was taken I changed clothes and started hanging drywall. BY 1986 we were listed for three years running as one of the fastest growing private companies in NJ. Business continued to grow at a slower pace through the 90's and into the next decade in spite of an abundance of competition. I have always been blessed with a very stable employee base. A lot of single people came in the door who are now married, have houses and kids and I take a lot of pride in that. In 2007 things started slowing down. I felt the coming crash before I read anything about it in the paper. When you build something from scratch you don't need some talking head or politician to tell you things aren't right. Since then it has been a mad scramble to survive. Credit tightening, eroding margins, a slew of new government regs, taxes, fees etc. and a massive slowdown in business spending on products and services I sell are the main obstacles. I have laid off only one person in that time but have not replaced anyone else who left for other reasons so my company has shrunk. I froze salaries for a while but couldn't live with that so I started them up again. I have cut every non-essential expense I can. I haven't taken a raise for myself since 2006 and recently downgraded my car from an Infiniti to a Ford. I take the same amount of vacation as my employees... no more. And I take far, far less than the $180K you intimate I earn. My typical work day is Mon-Fri from 8A-630P. I frequently work at home on nights and weekends on marketing ideas and quotes. 70 hour weeks are not uncommon. To be honest, I don't know if we will survive or not. There are a lot of factors working against us and all business that are out of our control. But I love my business and my employees who are my best friends as well. If the ship goes down they will find me with it and they will have to pry my hands from the wheel. Until then, I will give it everything I've got as will those I work with. Now you know my business life. Things are not always as you would like them to be. Some times the "bad guys" are just like you.
George..... Thanks for the info....and actually that's the business I thought you were in... which is a B to B. I have always been in a B to B type of environment and I well know the competitive pressures you are under.....I have always sold my products or services mindful of those pressures. It was BT that suggested I was saying that you were not in that type of environment and that you could charge any price you would like out of captive clients......which obviously you do not have and which I never remotely suggested. My beef is with those industries.....most specifically healthcare and energy who do have captive clients......all Americans to be exact. In the last 1o years while healthcare costs have tripled or quadrupled for the average American I'll bet your pricing has increased very modestly if at all while your margins are shrinking. Why is it that as a country we allow.....no one political party exults......in healthcare and oil profits that are rocketing upward while the cost to the average American rises through the nose for both of those essentials? That is just wrong.