Everyone is finally realizing the desperate shape our economy is in. We also have agreed that a full 50% of Americans pay no income tax. That means that the other 50% have to cover the expenses for the whole population. Here is a rhetorical question that I would like to hear feedback on: What would the impact be if anyone who does not pay federal income tax be prohibited from voting in elections involving federal reps? It would be easy to verify.... use the IRS to clear the names of taxpayers from the most recent year. Those who paid no tax forfeit their vote. The idea is that non tax payers have no "skin" in the game; they are free riding. Why should they have a say in things? It would also remove the incentive politicians have to buy votes through certain legislation and eliminate illegals from voting. What do you think?
It would never fly, that would go back to the ye olde days when you had to be a landowner to vote. Our democracy is built on 1 man 1 vote.
I think a relevant question is: Does the 50% number represent just numbers of people or amount of earnings? If 50% of the people only earn 20% of the earnings then taxing that group doesn't amount to very much.
If you were sitting at the poker table and one person out of six did not have to ante up or bet his hand would you be happy for them if they won the pot?
How about 3 out of 6? Fully half of the people for whom the central government is organized to provide services do not contribute anything towards their development, upkeep or administration......that can't possibly be healthy for our nation. In what society can that be considered fair and equitable?
If making < $30,000 per year means "winning the pot" then yes....I'd be pissed. But the reality of that kind of income is that a family cannot afford a car.....cannot afford housing......cannot afford healthcare. I think those that net out after taxes income of over $130,000 or so per year need to get a dose of that kind of reality. There is no expendable income for people trying to get by at the lower end of the income spectrum and yet those that have expendable cash due to high incomes....and make no mistake they have earned it......those that fit that category who are on the right tend to think it's just that simple. To hell with the realities of having no money to live decently......pony up SOBs. Lower income families cannot even fix and keep running a 15 year old jalopy they desperately need to get to the crappy job they are lucky to have. Where is the common sense and human decency here? In this country?
Liberals would remind you that while they don't pay "Income" tax they do pay FICA and all kinds of other property and consumption taxes and claim that it is a bigger burden on them.
That being the case, I would suggest that they do something for themselves to improve their situation as have generations before them as this country became the most efficient, productive and innovative society known to mankind ......we have created an entitlement mentality that has become a millstone around the neck of our society and this mindset has now created the greatest debtor nation in the history of the world - you tell me how the great social experiments we call entitlements have fared? You are entitled to what you earn and you will earn dependent on the value you provide to those in need of your services. The median household income in the United States is in excess of $50,000.....you are suggesting that people with incomes of $50,000 shouldn't be asked to provide ANYTHING to support the national defense of their country amongst other things.....that only those that have achieved through their own sweat and sacrifice some degree of success should have to pay for EVERYTHING? Really? And you think that is a good thing? You need to get on the next plane to Cuba or North Korea because that is exactly the philosophy you are espousing......
I used the figure of $30,000 not $50,000. Here is an inequity for you..... In any company I have worked for and I assume it is the same everywhere a family insurance premium was the same for all incomes and in my previous job three years ago it was over $800.00 per month.....now I am certain it must near $1000.00 per month and it is over $1100.00 per month at my current company plus huge deductibles. Expensive......but manageable for an employee making $150,00.00/year but absolutely devastating for an employee making < $30,000.00 What gets me is you think anyone not in the upper limits of income is just a rotten, lazy individual. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so insensitive and callous.....and wrong.
This country was founded on a lot of issues that have faded away in the past. I applaud the point that George made. I just don't know where you draw the line. If someone pays twice the amount of tax that I do, should they have twice the votes? Maybe... I'm not sure. Does the same hold true for someone that pays half the tax? Maybe it should be more like one vote for one person that pays in at least a minimum... but where do you draw that minimum line?
That is just not true at all.....those are your words not mine. I just don't happen to think as you do that it is the role of government to do for him those things that he can and should do for himself.....the role of government is to govern and to protect and defend those inalienable rights around which this country was founded. We are now spending 4x the amount of this country's resources on entitlements -v- national defense - that's absurd. Unlike you however, I believe that everybody that enjoys the protection of government needs to be compelled to bear his fair share of the burden of performing the above functions. It is inconceivable to me that you can have any sense of shared burden/sacrifice/pride/unity of purpose around which successful societies are built if fully half of the travelers are getting a free ride......
Does $1100.00 per month of insurance premiums plus deuctibles sound like someone getting a free ride? If someone makes....say $2500.00 gross per month then an average $1300.00 per month or so of healthcare expense would be about 55% of his gross income. Since when in the history of this country have healthcare expenses been 55% of a family's gross monthly income? And yet....fair to you or George or to millions of Fox radio zombies would be to make this free riding.....goof off....of an individual pay another 10% of his gross to federal taxes! Come on man......make some sense.
I agree Tom. If you have digested those numbers I give you above....or anyone has digested them and you still believe the families making low end wages should be stepping up to the plate even more so....maybe should be the first ones to pony up more tax revenue.......then the reality of life has escaped you and it is in fact hopeless for me to continue debating these issues with you guys.
Dave presumes that all men and women have the same education, skills and abilities . I'm not afraid to say that I make a lot more than a person earning $30K per year and that I am quite certsain that I have a higher skill set, equal or better education than most earning $30K and almost certainly more drive than all of them. I've never been handed anything. This country makes money off me and a lot of it. I take nothing! Whatever I've achieved is due to my own work ethic and nothing else. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Comrade.
You describe me pretty well in your description of you as I have done pretty well over the course of life....I am highly educated (thank you UF!) and I have achieved more in my career than many do.....and worked very hard to make that happen and develop the skills to make that happen. But here is where we differ. I don't expect that everyone on the planet should be my equal in those accomplishments and I do understand in a very personal way how bad times can befall a person due to matters you cannot control so I do have an empathy for those less fortunate than I and I do see the realities of hardships that face American families today and if you can't feel for the individual workers who are less fortunate then how can you not feel for their families....their children?
......and sad for those generations that will come after us. Where did that mindset come from? What have we done? Since when did the Marxist credo become more acceptable than the rugged individualism and personal accountability so central to our historic rise as a nation? When did success become something to punish and profits a dirty word and something to be forcibly acquired and removed from local communities to fund the social experiments of a far off central government? This is where these people want us to go.....and it is sad. I'm enrolling my kids in Mandarin Chinese lessons ASAP......
The discussion here is whether someone that does not pay taxes should be voting in elections that will elect people that will be controlling the FREE MONEY they receive from MY TAXES. Ho did that evolve in your never ending tirade on the cost of health care? Amen George. Cindy and I pay more taxes each year than that $30K that Dave talks about. It is because we applied ourselves. My education level is not as high as some here. I have risen to my position by hard work and dedication. My work ethic has taken me far above my degree. Cindy has done better for herself than I. It would have been easy... very easy, to sit back and worked my menial labor job I had in 1987 making less than I now pay in taxes. It would have been easy to take a poor pitiful me stance like Dave and let the taxpayers support me. I didn't do that. Cindy didn't do that. I can't stand the clown that does.