NOT those right wing blogs, radio stations and magazines that a lot of the members here choose to believe lock, stock and barrel with no room for alternative opinions or reasoning. Here is reality: http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/08/03/iraq.hearing/index.html
Ok, so civil war is possible that is reality. I don't disagree. That doesn't change my mind about the situation and war on terror.
My point is that you can't sugarcoat this thing Iraq by saying "hey...it's war on terror and we're doing everything right"... The Republican party wants it to be read that way this November but in reality the war in Iraq is a quagmire that was not fully anticipated or planned for by the Bush administration. The question is....what would or should we have done differently? I think it's quite clear that we would still be in Vietnam 35 years later if we were determined to see our preferred and hand picked government assume power there. If we think this insurgency is bad that one originating from Hanoi and with all those jungles and small villages in which to hide would have been a humdinger. Maybe this war isn't winnable and certainly it isn't with present troop levels. There is a never ending funnel of insurgents, shia militia and yes Al-Queda/Muslim extremists to keep this mess stirred up for many, many years to come. The only way this could end any time soon is if the people of Iraq could unite for the cause but now they are becoming fractured vs. one another in a civil war so that option seems distant as well.
MCG wrote: We should have done exactly what the Dems didn't want at the very beginning. This should have been an all out no prisoners taken battle. Not the "don't harm the civilians" type of hands tied mission. We are now in this way too deep to back out. We have a reputation of backing out and that is what the radicals are counting on. We pull out now, and we will be pulling out of our own territory in the not too distant future.
Seems to me that at 6,000 per month dead, that plenty of civilians are being harmed. Looking at Haditha for one thing and also reading many times of collateral deaths some of which occurred when we took out Zarqawi for example, I don't see your point.
MCG, many civilians are being harmed, granted. However, these mental midgets are hiding among the civilians... dressing like the civilians... acting like civilians. We must kill civilians or there is no need to be there. These a$$holes count on our concern for the safety of civilians when they couldn't care less for the same. We are fighting people that do not have the same regard for human life that we have. They live a life that is two centuries behind ours. We can't bomb them back much further. We have to take them out and that will require the loss of life... ours and theirs. If Bush had pushed for an all out, call everyone up to service, damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead type of conflict, the dems would have thrown a fit. Sharpton would be holding a "kill the brown man" peace rally. Jackson would be protesting on the steps of congress. Here's to the Dems taking office in 2008 so that we Repubs can sit back and throw stones at every chance we get to see how successful those Dems can be. If they do, I better see a full withdrawal within weeks without any repercussions! Yea... Right!
MCG, These "civilians" are aiding and abetting the terrorists either actively or passively. Where is their accountability? If they truly want this ended why don't they throw the terrorists out themselves. Its their country. Or is it? Another thing. I don't equate the loss of an Islamist life with the loss of virtually anything else. Their mission is clear. When you finally realize that you'll sleep better. F 'em!
Democrats were all on board for Iraq, even noted flip flopper John Kerry. Who I believe suggested that we needed more boots on the ground in the campaign and also that he would talk the Saudi's into lowering the price of oil. Yeah we'd be way better off with Kerry.
My earlier points were not about the loss of civilians I was just responding to a post by Tom where he ascertained that not many civilians were being killed because we were being held back somehow. I certainly don't decry the loss of insurgents or terrorists and I don't feel sorry for that terrorist if he chooses to put his loved one in harms way and they get hurt or killed but I do feel very sorry for those who are just innocent pawns and are being intimidated into harboring deadly guests. I assure you that if a band of terrorists with AK 47s and grenades forced their way into your home you would find you and your family helpless to stop the ensuing carnage should there be an all out assault by U.S. troops. You guys make light of this without thinking it through.
MCG, They believe that their God commands them to kill others. Our religion preaches that it is wrong to kill others. Yes, there is a big difference. It is like comparing a Mercedes to a chicken. There is no comparison. These people train their children to walk out into a group of people wearing a bomb. THESE ARE THE CIVILIANS! George W Bush said one thing that I whole heartedly disagree with. He described the good people within the religion of Islam as peaceful. So far, I have not seen or heard from any of these so called good people. I will even go this far: If it comes down to negotiating for my life... if it means that the US would have to turn loose even one of these killers... Just dig me a 6 ft hole and put me in it. I could not live with that on my conscience.
I can't speak for the rest of the people on the board but I draw my conclusions as to what reality is by choosing not to believe the mainstream media, the liberal press and posters who swallow every bit of anti-administration pap that they throw. The Iraqi people have got to decide if they want democracy or want to go back under the heal of another dictator. So far they've shown about as much guts for a battle as American liberals.
I agree, how much more time are we willing to spend their if their not willing to accept what were trying to do for them Do they really want another one of those dictators running their country?? I hope not
"WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Under tough questioning from U.S. senators, the head of U.S. Central Command acknowledged Thursday that Iraq could descend into civil war. "I believe that the sectarian violence is probably as bad as I've seen it, in Baghdad in particular, and that if not stopped it is possible that Iraq could move toward civil war," Gen. John Abizaid testified at a hearing before the Senate Armed Services Committee" Quote from the US Command in Iraq......not the "liberal" media.