Manning had very poor stats in this AFC Championship game in a 24-14 loss to the Pats: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=240118017 He also averaged 5 yards per pass and led his team to a measly 3 points the next year in a 20-3 loss to NE in the playoffs. Net yards per pass play vs. Pittsburgh in last year's playoffs....5.7...in a homefield loss for the team with the best record in the NFL, in which the Colt's 3rd down conversion was a measly 3-13. Sorry...but Peyton has only looked like Mickelson at the U.S. Open so far in his NFL career and college career for that matter. He has arguably been the best QB in the NFL regular season but he needs to have that signature....get his team over the top win for the big prize.... before he gets the 0-4 Florida monkey off his back.
Manning has a long way to go, John Elway was frustrated till late in his career. He'd had some great regular seasons, he broke the hearts of Cleveland fans with "The Drive", but his Bronco teams were blown out in Super Bowls. Finally in his twilight he got a couple of wins, without them he'd still be a Hall of Fame QB, but no Joe Montana, with them his place in NFL history is enhanced. Another one is Jim Kelly. Certainly winining Championships is one thing, but not the only determining factor. It still is a team game. Terry
And I contend again Terry that Manning himself has not had that individual break-out, "I'm the man" performance on his biggest stages. In a sense he leads his team to the brink of greatness then he takes too much of a backseat or he doesn't lead at all. It's more a part of his psyche than it is his physical ability. One of these days before he is done I think this will happen for him but he only had 4 years in college and it didn't happen for him there. He still has time in the NFL and if he keeps a supporting cast he should get there but you never know.
Arguably Manning's biggest college game except for maybe Florida and his stats are around 6.5 yards per pass and pretty miserable in general: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/college/scoreboards/1998/01/02/finalbox.nebraska.tennessee.html
All's I know is that I wish Peyton had gone to ND or Texas we'd have been better during those times with him and I wish now that he were the Texans QB as we'd be better with him. Terry
Given the results I would still take Danny over Peyton as the Florida Qb in those years. Heck...Doug Johnson had maybe his finest game as a Gator vs. Manning in 1997 ( I was there). Peyton threw an int. in that game (that I had predicted would happen) that was returned 87 yards for a game turning TD in the first half.
Danny Wuerffel had an outstanding college career and I don't see that as a discussion here. The discussion is Peyton Manning and his value as a QB. I'm with Terry as to Manning and if I owned a NFL team would be more than happy to have him as my QB. Too many times we lose fact that it is indeed a team game. During Mannings career at Florida the Gators had the better teams and I would contend the better coach. That should not take anything away from Manning as you are attempting, unsuccessfully in my opinion.
So.....your point is? You are a FL fan. Of course you're going to take your own guy over an archrival QB, no matter who he is. I would do the same. But you can do it without speaking ill of the other guy. Do we look that dumb? When you denigrate a player and person the quality of a Peyton Manning, as you have done several times in this topic, it speaks volumes about the person you are.
From Bill: "And I have to disagree with MCG, what's new? Manning does not and has not muffed the biggest games. Yes he was 0-4 against Florida, but that was the greatest 4 years ever for the Gators and we had a guy there named Wuerffel." I put up links to stats on his biggest games and I contend along with many NFL experts that while he may be possibly the greatest NFL regular season QB the last few years he still has not performed to his capability in his biggest games and he did not in college as well. 95% of the time he is a Hall of Famer but he still has not achieved the status of an Elway, Montana, etc. and only because he has held himself back for whatever reason. Why did Mickelson blow the U.S. Open...same principle. Geez Sid...you are a sensitive guy aren't you and a closet Tenn. fan to boot. Excuse me for voicing my honest opinion about Peyton the Great.
Well no doubt Peytons legacy currently has a big empty space. Just like Marino, and Fouts and others. Ya gotta win the big one to get that extra shine to your resume. Terry
MCG, What you are not taking into consideration is this: Since you are a "Stats kind of guy" :wink: look up the stats of how many first round draft picks Florida had in the 1995 thru 1998 NFL drafts. Compare that to the same years for Tennessee. You will come up with Florida having much more success than Tennessee in that aspect. Now, that means that Florida had a better supporting staff for Danny than Tennessee had for Peyton. So, unless you subscribe to the theory that all interceptions and incompletions are the fault of the QB, you would have to agree that Danny had an advantage over Peyton in the area of supporting cast. If you ask for my opinion, Peyton was a far superior QB to Danny. Why??? Because Danny had the advantage of Steve Spurrier and an offense that opened it up at every opportunity. Peyton was working under the students of General Neyland... very predictable and stubborn... meaning that they did not adapt very well. My second reason is this: What happened to Danny when he no longer had the evil genius watching over him? Peyton has become a top notch NFL QB. There has to be something to that. Believe me… I have tremendous respect for Danny as a college QB. I would look silly stating otherwise. I just believe that his success was due primarily to the efforts of his coaching staff while Peyton overcame the shortcomings of his coaching staff to create his own success.
Give it a rest, MCG. To paraphrase Tom, you look as ridiculous criticizing Manning as any of us would look if we criticized Weurfel.
No doubt that Bill Bates, pound for pound, inch for inch, had more heart than any other Tennessee Vol. However, that would be like saying "Rudy was the best ND player of all time." Bates' is remembered most for one thing. It was either Bo Jackson of Auburn or Hershal Walker of Georgia that left a cleat print on Bills Jersey as he steped right over him on his way to a TD. Bill is still a loved member of the Vol family and always will be. But the greatest... I don't think so.
Yeah Bill was a great Vol, but he wasn't the greatest ever. I was funnin with you guys about HW running him over. My God he was only a Freshman!
bill bates dang I haven't heard that name in forever. I had forgotten he was a vols. Since I'm a young buck and all all I can remember is him playing for the Dallas Cowboys. Which Is my Fav pro team by the way.