... also, remember that the population from 1970 to now has increased by 50%. Cars on the road have increased by even a higher percentage. More congested highways are a good reason for protecting the youth from themselves.
Tom, I come from a family with 40 years of law enforcement that is still going on today with two nephews following their fathers footsteps who followed my fathers steps. I happened to be blind in one eye so was not able to join the marines or become an officer of the law but I sure tried to make them accept me... :wink: I have heard many a story that would make most folks never get behind the wheel... I can agree with your statement and experience when it comes to the inexperience of youth (Remember I have an 18 year old) on the highway and then possibly mix that with alcohol. What I have a problem with is if we are going to set age standards they must coincide with other age limit laws/rules. Honestly you don't find it hypocritical that an 18 year old can go to jail as an adult, die in a foreign war but cannot legaly drink a beer at a frat party as an 18 or 20 year old...I know I may be in the minority here but hypocrisy is something I don't tolerate very well and have yet to have someone explain how this subject is not. RC
I wonder if there was some middle ground available, that would have police be able to break up (unruly) parties and not arrest underage drinkers, just ticket them and they pay a fine like they would for speeding. No going to jail, now I am assuming that they are not getting behind the wheel. Maybe the trade off would be inorder to get the speeding ticket you'd have blow and if you are over the limit the can drive you home or something like that.
RC, I feel like one of the biggest hypocrites in the world for my beliefs on this subject. I look back on the alcohol consumption of my youth and the friends that I lost over this sickness. It took me until the age of 31 to despise the over consumption of alcohol. It was the Texas/OU weekend 1999. I was attending a 2 week class at Applied Materials in Austin while still working for Intel in New Mexico. I drove to Dallas on that fateful weekend to visit friends (We lived in Dallas between 1989 and 1994). On the way back to Austin, I witnessed a car, about 200 yards in front of me, vier off the interstate and hit a bridge abutment without ever hitting the brakes. I called 911 as I pulled over. While still on the phone with 911, I had an 18 year old girl die in my arms on the side of IH-35 just below the point where IH-35E and IH-35W come together. There was empty beer cans all over that car. The girl was a passenger that never knew what hit her. It was that incident that drove me to learn CPR and become a Emergency Response Team member at Intel. When I took a job with Applied Materials about 2 months later, I joined ERT with AMAT as well. When I moved to Jarrell about a year later, I convinced my wife that I needed to join that little group to help make a difference when I couldn't for that 18 year old. We both joined as rescue workers. We saw our share of devastation caused by drinking an driving which enforced my beliefs that I am right in the way I look at drinking and driving whether under aged or not. I would like to see all young people make it to be old people rather than paying for a poor decision with their lives. I was lucky... dumb luck, but lucky none the less. My stupid decisions did not cost me my life or the lives of others.
What are the stats for fatal car accidents of underage drivers who are found to have been drinking, or car accidents in general (fatal or non-fatal) for underage drivers who have been found to be drinking. To me the problem, is that we are never going to stop college kids from drinking, been going on for hundreds of years. So how do we handle it? Is arresting them the best way?
Tom, I can understand your opinion in light of your experience on the highway and am sorry for how it must have affected you over the years. I admire your persistance in getting involved with this topic. If there is one thing I hope I have learned as I have gotten older is the rarity and beauty of life in general and how one person "CAN" make a difference, it sounds like the events of that accident has framed you into a one of these people... We will leave the hypocrosy thought process in the hands of those who know it best, the politicians.... RC
Terry, I agree that it is a hopeless cause, these young adults are going to drink no matter how many laws are written. Just like I am going to speed on the way to work despite a dozen speed limit signs telling me its against the law. I am sure there are a thousand different ways to handle it...I like your idea of paying a fine instead of incarceration that makes the headlines for something so simple. It makes criminals out of innocents... I do have a question though...Who are the Indiana Excise police??? RC
Thanks RC. I think you now understand my jaded opinion in this topic. I'm afraid that experience is what will never change my desire to keep youth out of danger. It may be Don Quixotesque but I will keep fighting my windmills if it will save one life. Cindy just read the recent posts in this topic. Her main comment was: "Someday, we need to meet RC. He seems to be a together person."
In Texas we have the TABC, Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission. They do conduct raids, including the well publicized and much criticized Operation Last Call. Which was so poorly conceived and executed that the Leg had to call it off. They would actually arrest patrons in a hotel bar who were staying at the hotel as they left to get on to an elevator to go to their rooms. To be honest with you I don't think they would be involved in breaking up block parties.
I do know that in Austin and South Bend there is a feeling, right or wrong, that the local cops are out to get students. I seem to remember MCG expressing a feeling that Gainesville cops like to bust UF kids. In a big city like Houston, I can't think of the last time I read about HPD busting up a college party. Maybe it happens and the local media don't bother with it.
From WNDU.com: An uncontrollable crowd of about 100 people and 15 police officers unable to control it. Excise was not even involved until requested to come. Yep. The police certainly were out to get these "kids will be kids" students who were just having a good time. They don't deserve to be hassled, do they?
It doesn't matter what division of police it was. If the attendees are showing total disrespect for the directions given by authority figures, call in whoever it takes. I don't want to see another Kent State, but how long do we go before we make progress in turning these attitudes around?
In my five or six visitis to South Bend I reached the conclusion the Notre Dame is the city's premier industry, its golden goose. I can't imagine vacationing in South Bend or doing much of anything else not related to Irish activities. So my question is, why would the police target ND students and athletes? If anything I would think they would over compensate the other way.
I'm this close to cancelling my subscription to the Blue-Gold Illustrated site. The hypocrisy of 90% of the BB posters is galling. From repealing the pot laws to lowering the legal drinking age, these homers are willing to do or say anything to prevent an Irish athlete from shouldering any responsibility for their asinine behavior. And yet they are the first to attack any other school when similar stories break out. And as Sid said, the excise police are these moron's favorite target.
Well the general feeling, right or wrong, is that the SB & IEP Cops love busting ND students. I have also read that there are problems, if you want to call them that, with the IEP and Evansville students as well as at IU and Purdue. Bottom line is that except for the publicity and the trip to jail none of these students is going to face any big time problems. They will most likely all get some probation, requirement for alcohol education, pay a fine, etc.
I was not comparing the two. My comment was that some time in the future, if not now, we have to find a way to turn these attitudes around. I am not willing to support the methods used at Kent State, but the police, at any level, have to do something to combat the acts of lawlessness and disrespect for authority.
I attended a few big parties while in school...never had the cops called on us but if they had showed up and asked us to leave...I would have been gone. But then I was just a geek.
I agree with RECcane. I cannot rationalize how we can allow 18 yr. olds all the privledges of majority and hold them to all the responsibilities of majority and yet carve out one exception. We don't tell 80 yr. olds that because of their age they can no longer drive. Many of them no longer have the physical abilitiy to safely drive but we would never have the audacity to draw the line at a specific age. Likewise, some 18 yr. olds are not responsible enough to drink but we can't discriminate against all 18 yr. olds because some are not capable. If an 18 yr. old isn't capable of handling alcohol, why should he/she be allowed to vote?