I am posting this article because it underscores the impact of the GOP's reluctance to extend unemployment benefits to millions of Americans who will run out by the end of July. http://www.freep.com/article/20100701/BUSINESS06/7010357/Ongoing-unemployment-spurs-debate In Michigan alone 170,000 will be out of benefits by the end of July and given there must be at least an average of 3 people per household that is 540,000 Michigan residents severely impacted by this action or inaction. I am just curious as to what some of you here think on this issue. Are these people worthless? Are they lazy? Is there something wrong with them to the point we should just adopt a "move along....nothing to see here" complacency about their plight? Do they deserve misery becuse they grew up in or chose to live and work in Michigan? Before you comment have you or someone close to you tried to get a job in this economy? Anywhere in the US qualifies but think about the difficulty of finding work specifically in hard hit areas like Michigan. I heard an economist last night say this action by the GOP could effectively derail any hope of an economic recovery. Just the situation they are angling for I guess.
Well I guess we have to completely redefine unemployment benefits then. They are supposed to be temporary help for those who are unemployed, I don't know what the length of time you can get benefits, but it's supposed to be limited. If it's not limited then in a way it becomes an alternate form of employment. These benefits have been extended a number of times already. At some point you have to say we can't do it any longer. Not because you don't feel for the unemployed but because you don't want it to become that alternate for working and create a class of permanently unemployed. Here in Houston we had problems with Katrina people. They were given govt support for housing, it was supposed to be a year, then when the year was up much weaping and gnashing of teeth, appearance by Jesse Jackson, etc resulted in it being extended, and then it was extended again. People were just flat out taking advantage of the situation. It's finally stopped but even then it didn't stop easily and without sad stories. It had become a rent subsidy for people from Louisiana who were now permanent residents and should have been working and earning their own way. I'm sure they also were getting unemployment.
Interesting article. Apparently the rich, elite democrats are moving away from Obama. [/quote]“If you’re asking if the United States is about to become a socialist state, I’d say it’s actually about to become a European state, with the expansiveness of the welfare system and the progressive tax system like what we’ve already experienced in Western Europe,” Harvard business and history professor Niall Ferguson declared during Monday’s kickoff session, offering a withering critique of Obama’s economic policies, which he claimed were encouraging laziness. “The curse of longterm unemployment is that if you pay people to do nothing, they’ll find themselves doing nothing for very long periods of time,” Ferguson said. “Long-term unemployment is at an all-time high in the United States, and it is a direct consequence of a misconceived public policy.”
"become that alternate for working and create a class of permanently unemployed" I'm willing to bet there are a few in that group....as there always will be for eternity....but there is a great majority I'll also bet who are qualified to work and who want to work.....especially in places that have very high unemployment numbers like Michigan. The irony is that when these people drop off the unemployment lists the Michigan unemployment numbers are bound to superficially go down while in the interim these people are in abject poverty......and not because they choose it.
I guess basket weaving, flim-flam scams and bank robbery would be the alternatives? I know of a family where almost two years ago the father lost his automotive related job and all he could find find was some part-time apartment maintenance work i.e. snow shoveling the walk, etc......and it wasn't paying the bills last I heard.
So Dave, if there was a referendum on the ballot that you increase your payroll deduction to ~60% for taxes to support the extended benefits for the unemployed? Simple question? Yes, or no...
It's not that I don't feel for those unemployed, but there is a danger in creating a long term unemployment entitlement. It's sort of like when Clinton reformed Welfare in '96, it ended a lot of open ended entitlements and there were no doubt people who genuinely needed them who were tossed out of the system. Whether it's Welfare, Food Stamps, or unemployment there has to be some limits and if there aren't any limits it's too easy to create a whole class of people dependent on these entitlements.
Tom...I would like to see what the realistic number would be and I would guess it varies depending on the income levels but say if it took an additional 1 or possibly 2% of my income I would be in favor. But at the same time I would also advocate that free riders....those who don't care about working....are monitored closely and are penalized in times of a good economy when jobs are easier to come by. That seems like a sensible approach to me but not much in Washington ever makes sense anymore with all of the bitter partisanship. By the way...I think some of that additional tax on my income might come back around by being spent in the economy.
Before you put down those who are trying to do this consider that when I was laid off in Dec. 2008 my subsequent maximum unemployment benefit was about 1/8 of what I had been making for the past 8 years. Most jobs that I looked at were those kinds of freight sales brokerage jobs that promised not much more than that up front with the "promise" that if you brought your "book of business" with you then you could begin at some point to make a decent living maybe 45-55% of what I had been making. And then there were many other sales type jobs that promised a lot and guaranteed nothing solid to pay bills with. It was a catch 22, damned if you do..damned if you don't situation because you couldn't remain on unemployment if you took another job but you needed a job. It's no wonder some of those who want jobs....need jobs....and can't get them are resorting to what those in the article are resorting to. It's a desperate situation for many. Keep in mind that most men over 30 with families in Michigan and elsewhere haven't seen the low income levels that unemployment benefits provide since they were in their early 20s. It is being pretty unrealistic to expect someone who is 50 with kids in college to adjust his family's style of living to a poverty level....especially when he can't even sell his house to move down to skid row in the first place. Fortunately for me I was able to find something in Fla in my field but still less than half of what I had been making but more than any other company was willing to offer as guaranteed income. In other words.....unemployment payments are bare bones income for many people in SE Michigan and it doesn't pay the bills in most cases. For me to remain on the low income levels of those Michigan unemployment payments was not an option.....moving out of the state became the only option. These people have families and houses and face insurmountable financial difficulty. Maybe you have to be in that position to understand it.
There are a LOT of people out there collecting Unemployment benefits AND working. Clean up the fraud.
Understand that I wouldn't or never had to do that but I can see the situation people get in to and why they do it. Say your "gross" unemployment income nets out to about 18-20 K annualized and the only jobs you can find promise no more than 15-20 K as a guarantee. If you accept a position like that you are essentially screwed for a long long time because how in the hell are you supposed to keep looking for a decent, adequately paying job when the crappy, woefully inadequate one you have finally been pushed into accepting does not allow you the time, energy and interview opportunities to get the kind of job you need in a very rough job market. Hence....your only solution to that is to pass on the crappy, inadequate jobs or if you really need the cash you work part time for cash money in a fraudulent situation. Again...I don't personally have the b*lls to do that and I never had to but I can certainly see why people find themselves in that position. I think in most cases it's absolute financial desperation that drives people to do that more than any sort of a money grab. Again...if you have never personally been unemployed and looking at a mound of bills with all of the above staring you in the face and kids and a wife at home wondering what ITF happened to their life then you may not get what I am saying.
The original post (besides the tiresome rant against the GOP) asked about those in Michigan on unemployment. I posted an article that I thought was quite telling. Folkes would rather stay on unemployment rather than work a 40 hr. week and make a net of $95 more. When I got out of ND, I didn't go to law school right away. I taught school from 8;30 to 3 and then worked at LaGuardia airport cleaning out planes from 4 to midnight. Then I'd go home and do lesson plans for the next day. I was off at the airport on Tues. and Wed. so I worked 7 da. a week. I'm sure we all have our stories. It's too bad that the stimulus rip off wasn't spent on trying to create new private sector jobs. It's become quite clear that the money was spent keeping the public union workers on the job and did nothing for jobs in the private sector. Meanwhile unemployment continues to cripple millions who keep looking to Washington for something to be done. What do they get, excuses.
$95 more per week amounts to a whopping $5200.00 gross per year or annualized at approx. $23,000.00 /year with unemployment. I made that much in 1979 and it wasn't a whole lot even then.....much less now. The ranks of this current two year wave of extreme unemployment are filled with middle-aged, higher paid employees with all of the appropriate financial and family obligations. It's not just a bunch of kids living at their parents home scraping for car payment funds and extra beer money.
I'm a small business owner of 30 years. This recession has dropped my revenues 40%. I have cut every single business related expense I can. And every non-essential personal "extravagance". I have shrunk my own comp plan every year since 2007. I am working more hours now than I have in years and making far less. Last week I laid off my first employee in my company's history. I didn't sleep well for a week before and I'm still not sleeping well but there was nothing else I could do. Here in NJ we will be expected to pay an additional $1000 per employee this year into the state Unemployment Insurance Fund. Why? Because it is bankrupt. I didn't bankrupt it nor did anyone who has ever worked for me. But I'm going to pony up an additional $18K anyway because I have to. My neighbor across the street goes on 3-4 cruises every year. She and her hubby who hasn't worked in years just bought their indigent son a house and they own five cars. What does she do? She runs a house cleaning service. Every morning at 8:00A she has 7-8 Mexicans in her driveway getting their assignments. I'd bet my ass not one of them is on the books. They drive here in cars with PA and NY plates because you can get a DL there with little or no ID. I came home one night last week and three of them were squatting on my front curb. I decided to mess with them so I pulled up and pointed my cell camera at them. They ran like the wind. So I pay all the taxes, fees etc. and they pay none and travel the world. That's my rant. Now tell me about fair.
Fine, they can sit on their asses and do nothing. Wait! Is this the part where the compassion comes in?
George I know what you're saying. Because I'm a PC (professional corporation) I have to pay state unemployment taxes. Only problem, I have no employees. I have a few part time typists buy none make enough per quarter to qualify for Soc. Sec. In short, the only employee of my corp. for the past 7 yrs. is me and I wouldn't qualify if I somehow laid myself off. It's like paying auto insurance when you don't drive or fire insurance when you don't own a home. I have no insurable interest yet they force me to pay.
OK...I guess you do think every unemployed person is some jackass kid living at home and partying. You obviously haven't read a thing I was saying. George...that would piss me off too but that is another issue.
Not exactly, I think a lot are like you who think that they should be entitled to a job just like the one that they lost and if they don't get it, they're going to take unemployment rather than take a job beneath them. And of course despite the fact that Democrats have controled the White House and Congress for a year and a half, it's the GOP's fault. The delusion continues.
It's not another issue Dave. It is the working man paying more to the government to be dealt out to the unemployed. The attitude that they can make more by collecting unemployment IS the problem. They would rather me pay their way that to help the situation by taking a job. There are people out there that would take two of those lower paying jobs and get off unemployment. Those people are the ones that deserve to have money left in the system incase they are unemployed again. However, the ones that will not work are draining the fund for the ones that deserve it. There are jobs out there. Maybe not the ones that you might want. But there are jobs. As for the 1 to 2 percent additional that you are willing to pay, the 60% total is what the socialist countries pay in takes. We are moving to a socialist state. The working class paying more and more to support the non-working public.