A lot of theory about the state of the Irish is offered up here. Some you guys probably don't agree with but some other things will make you want Chollie out in a hurry: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/stewart_mandel/11/08/College.Overtime/index.html?eref=sihpT1
Hey since Holtz left we are what we are...if we want to be more we have to go out and do it. It's simple.
Hey as the Gators found out in 1990 with Spurrier and five years ago with Meyer, the coach makes a big difference. Kelly sounds like a winner to me and if the Gators were in the market for a coach he would be at or near the top.
Here's a thumbnail resume of Weis at ND. Almost beyond belief, particularly Point #18 :cry: 15-21 in the last 36 games. 1. Lost to Navy for first time since 1963 ... then did it again two years later. The latter loss was the first time since 1936(the first year of polling) that an unranked Navy team defeated a ranked Notre Dame team. Both losses to Navy were at home, no less. 2. Blown out by Air Force 3. First coach in Notre Dame history to lose to an eight-loss team (Syracuse 2008) 4. Struggled against lesser opponents routinely (SDSU, Navy, Air Force, Boston College, Michigan State, Syracuse) 5. Record against USC: 0-5 6. Record against Boston College: 1-2 7. Record against Michigan: 2-3 8. Record against Michigan State: 2-3 9. Losses by 20 points or more: 8 (more than Willingham and Davie) 10. Shutout losses: 3 (Boston College, USC, Michigan) - prior to Willingham (who had 2) this had only happened 3 times from 1965-2001 11. Posted first 9-loss season in school history. 12. Second-to-last overall offense in the country in 2007. 13. Lowest average yardage in the history of Notre Dame football in 2007. 14. Lost to Navy, USC and Michigan in the same year twice 15. Average margin of defeat against USC: 19.8 ppg 16. Has lost to five teams that finished outside the top 50 (MSU 2007, Purdue 2007, GT 2007, Navy 2007, Syracuse 2008) while Willingham did this twice, Davie once and Faust once. 17. Set an NCAA record for most sacks allowed in a season in 2007. 18. 3-16 record since 2007 against teams that finished with a winning record. 19. Weis has not beaten a team finishing in the top 10 of any of the major polls. The closest he has come is a last-second loss to USC in 2005, which many have derisively labeled his "signature game." 20. Record against Final AP Top 25: 1-10 Overall [0-2 (2005: Ohio State-L, USC-L), 1-3 (2006: LSU-L, Michigan-L, USC-L, Penn State-W), 0-3 (2007: Michigan-L, USC-L, Boston College-L), 0-2 (2008: Michigan State-L, USC-L)] 21. Weis has given up 40+ points in a loss 6 times, 30+ in a loss 19 times
I had a lengthy response for this last night but the net crashed due to a storm before I could hit send. Long story short, if you don't call people on their ********, they will continue to use it to grow their fungus and eventually people accept that ********. The entire premise of this article was that there's no difference between Northwestern and ND. In fact, they suggest the Northwestern wins more frequently than ND. Utter ********. In that article, NU's head coach makes the claim that they have been winning consistently since 1995. That's an outright lie. They've had 4, count them, 4 winning seasons since 1995. Most of their seasons are of the 4-8 variety. I can post the details again if you really care, but I assure you, the facts are on my side. In that same time frame ND has had 8 and will have 9 at the end of this year. I'm as distraught as anyone over the situation at ND but I still see positive momentum and I still see progress being made. Of course, you can go ahead and buy into ******** like the stuff in this article. The base premise underlying all of this isn't Charlie's "jersey bravado" it's the fact that he isn't Tyrone Willingham. It's the fact that they were wrong and not one of them, Mandel, Dodds et all can admit that they were wrong. They don't heap praise on Weis when it is deserved but they are ready to heap garbage trucks of blame and trash on him when the chance presents itself. Weis represents so many things that these jackals don't want to admit are right and exist about Notre Dame. If you don't like it, hey, I hear Northwestern has been winning consistently since 1995... SI told me so
I think these two items are the most damning of Weis at ND with regard to on field performance: 19. Weis has not beaten a team finishing in the top 10 of any of the major polls. The closest he has come is a last-second loss to USC in 2005, which many have derisively labeled his "signature game." 20. Record against Final AP Top 25: 1-10 Overall [0-2 (2005: Ohio State-L, USC-L), 1-3 (2006: LSU-L, Michigan-L, USC-L, Penn State-W), 0-3 (2007: Michigan-L, USC-L, Boston College-L), 0-2 (2008: Michigan State-L, USC-L)]
If they are so truly damning, then why are they #19 and 20 on the list? Don't get me wrong (and I feel I must add this qualifier to each post to keep someone from hijacking my intent), I do believe Charlie has made mistakes, lots of them in fact. I posit that we hired a guy who had not been an HC before. We KNEW coming into this that he was going to make mistakes. We knew there would be pains. It is only when we are faced with these pains that we find the measure of true men. If I were able to put you in a time capsule and we were to take stock of what ND had become the day before Charlie took the job, you'd see just how far this guy has come. A good many of these people in the media have not even hidden their agenda, its that a good many of you aren't very good at following the bouncing ball. Forde, Mandell, Dodd etc were all guys who went on the record HOPING for the demise of Charlie Weis before they knew jack squat about the guy... all they knew is that he wasn't Tyrone Willingham and his failure will do nothing but further their own stature. If Urban Meyer would have been responsible for 'pass right', we'd be seeing ESPN commercials around the clock and Gatorade ads telling me that 'pass right is G'...But we don't.. In fact, the guy doesn't talk about it unless it is brought up...even then, he avoids the subject. It appears I'll be the last guy on the band wagon, and I am 100% comfortable with that. I'll save ya a seat just in case. But if you want me to buy into these articles written by ******** artist liars, who are putting out blatant falsehoods in justification for a point that is there... but not really where they are telling you its at, then I'm not having it. The truth is.. if the kid who made his last 14 FGs in a row doesn't shank 2 in the same game... or our best WR doesn't forget the play and have a pass thrown off his back inside in the 10..or Clausen slides instead of going in head first at the goal line... hell any one of those things go differently, we win this game and the seat is nowhere near as hot as it is right now. That's a fact many of you seem to gloss.
You are not alone, Corey. Look around and you'll see me and ndfan77 smiling at you. In fact, it looks like JO'Co sitting next to you. Am I correct? There are plenty of seats open since so many fair weather fans have either jumped off voluntarily or were thrown off when the wagon hit that huge bump in the road last Saturday. Up until now, I have refused to get involved in this unfortunate and embarrassing meltdown. Your comments assure me that there remains a shred of sanity out there among the vocal outbursts that have flooded this forum and others since last Saturday. Because I now have the comfort of knowing that I am not alone, I am at ease wading into the ugly muck and mire of unrest. Let me say up front that I am heartsick and angry over the loss to Navy. Like you, Corey, I can cite several what-ifs that could have changed the outcome. I'm also dumbfounded that Navy ran through our defense like a hot knife through butter. There is no question that before we face another triple option team, we must correct these problems. While we're at it, we must rebuild our pass defense, which is on life support. HOWEVER, taking the season one game a time, and recalling the desperate state of the program, personnel-wise AND atttitude-wise, when CW took over 5 years ago, I cannot ignore certain positive factors in the progress to date. While our record is improving from its low point two years ago, although not enough to satisfy those who expect an instant return to greatness, perhaps the most critical evidence of progress IMO is the heart of the team, its refuse-to-lose mentality in the face of what would have been in recent past years almost certain defeat. We've seen it 5 times this season, albeit with 2 wins and 3 losses. It's not just one person (Clausen, for example). It's a team mindset that I haven't seen since the days of Coach Holtz. Of course, it takes an extremely talented QB like JC to set it in motion, but it takes every member of the team buying into that mindset to make it happen. This is a solid foundation which will survive the loss of great players because the replacements will have had the same mindset drilled into them from the time they set foot on campus. In short, I am optimistic about where we are headed. I believe the pieces are in place for a highly successful season in 2010, whether or not JC is our QB, and assuming that we correct the serious problems with the defense. There is no changing the thinking of those who disagree with us, and I'm not blind to the possibility that I could be wrong, that the last 3 games of the season could be disappointing. I'm OK with whatever the administration decides, whether a coaching change or no change, but I'm staying on the wagon until its last stop, whenever and wherever that may be. I trust you will continue to ride with me. It's going to be awfully bumpy, but unlike the times with Davie and Willingham when I knew it was time to get off, this time I'm staying on for the ride. Let's be sure our seat belts are buckled. :wink:
That's great stuff, Sid. I've gotten a lot out of this community over the years, and not all of it is sports-related. Something I've admired about you is your ability to maintain an even keel and keep things like sports in proper perspective. You can be an inspiration at times. "The Skybox. Come for the sports; stay for the life lessons."
Sid, I can totally agree with that statement. It was the Bama game that Tennessee lost that could have been described the same way. However, Tennessee fans came out of that game with smiles on our faces. The difference is that Tennessee had already found the rotten planks at the bottom of our barrel. After replacing those planks, the attitudes changed, the efforts changed, the outlook was brighter. Seeing things change in a positive way does a lot for fan base outlook. I'm not saying that your rotten planks are the same as ours. You just have to find where they are and replace them.
Great Post Sid. I'm personally getting off the bandwagon, but if things change like a 3 game win streak and a bowl win I'll be hopping back on the wagon. I would like to see Chollie succeed, and if he leaves the program is in better shape than when the last guy left, but so many arrows are not pointing up it's hard to imagine that this will have a happy ending. But I'm always open to a happy ending!
Possibly. Both the university president and AD just gave him a vote a confidence which I guess is the academic world's version of leaving a New Jersey horse's head in your bed.
I wonder if Gary Barnett will ever return to coaching? Same for Franchione and Ty Willingham. Granted they no doubt have decent bank accounts courtesy of their former employers...but I'm suprised none them are back in the game.
Terry O'Keefe wrote: Uh... Terry... Happy Ending does have a lot of meanings. :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: