Like Sid, I found myself just about off the Charlie bandwagon Sat. night. The defense is not what I hoped it would be this year and losing Floyd has really hurt what was a truely exciting, potent offense. Let's step back a minute and realize the situation the Weis came into. We all know the talent level problem that existed in the last to poor efforts by Ty. Without the benefit of Juco plaster, these holes were bound to be a problem in 07 and 08 and oh brother, they were. But perhaps a bigger problem for Charlie was the lack of preparation time he had to hit the ground running. As you may recall he was hired well after the '04 season ended. ND lost valuable time chasing Meyer and stumbling around in the dark. Weis took the offer but was obligated to finish the playoff run of the Pats. This posed two large problems First was in recruiting. By the time Charlie was hired, many of the top talent had committed elsewhere and some recruits even decommitted due to the firing of Willingham. We have the benefit of watching Charlie recruit and we can see that it is a two year cycle. He now is making offers to 2011 graduates. It was not until his third recruiting class that he had a full cycle. This was a top class. The second problem was in the long run a larger problem. Unlike a head coach from anothe program, Charlie did not come in with a staff. He had to put one together at the last minute with castoffs, misfits and unknowns. When a head coach is hired and comes in with a staff, he has coaches he's familiar with who know the system he wants to run. Charlie had no such luxury. To make matters worse, perhaps the best coaching mind he hired David Cutcliffe was never able to join his staff due to health problems. Over the 4 previous years we've seen Minter replaced by Brown, Haywood has been replaced with Alford, Oliver has been replaced by Hart, and Latina replaced by Verducci. Anyone who has followed the team for the past four years has got to appreciate the improvement Verducci has made in the running game and Alford's efforts have resulted in one fumble (botched handoff) in 4 games. Today's staff is far superior to Charlie's original group but there is still need for further changes. No one can be happy with the defense both in line talent and team performance. Polian must be a hell of a recruiter because his special teams have for the most part, failed to approach mediocrity. Right now Charlies in a race with a very impatient train bearing down on him. He has to figure a way to patch a defense that is just too ineffective. His biggest problem is that he lets Charlie the OC overrule Charlie the HC at times. Football strategy is not limited to calling the right play in every instance. Sometimes trying a FG or, gasp, punting, is the way to go. I still am not convinced that Charlie can coach a championship team although, I do think he could recruit one. Attitudeds toward coaches is a lot like partners in a marriage. When things go bad, some want out right away, some hang on hoping that things can be worked out, and some just suffer for years. Right now most still are hoping it works out but many have already filed for divorce.
George, Not at all. In fact, I firmly believe that you and I aren't all that far apart. The one area in which we clearly disagree is how Charlie sees himself in the bigger picture of things. Just because he is the most arrogant assh*le in the room doesn't mean he believes he's the greatest coach of all-time..and any notion he MAY have held to that end was quashed by the past 2 seasons. He has confidence in his ability, all men at that level do, but I think honestly he sees himself (and perhaps a bit egotistically) as the man who will save football at his alma mater. I think he thinks bigger than the short term, he's thinking legacy. What I believe he may be missing is that he needs to win a title if he wants to be a part of that legacy... But this guy does know football.. and there is no way that any man, woman or child who walked into ND football 5 years ago and saw that massive falloff in talent from Sr/Jr waaaay down to FR/So classes. After Davie's last class, there really wasn't a whole lot of anything there. I agree he upset some alumni, but honestly, some of those alumni can go blow it out their ass. Not all of them... but there are a select few who can seriously go blow it. He's the head coach at ND, he doesn't have to kiss the ring because you were once played there. Respect is a 2-way street. Also, you have that one jackass that ESPN LOOOOVES to quote who basically wants Charlie to publicly admit that this guy committed a MAJOR NCAA violation in the recruiting of Sam Young.. He wants Charlie to attribute all the credit to him for Sam Young going to ND. I know I don't even have to get the rule book out for you on that one. I'm quite sure the alum is telling the truth and he did have some conversations with Young about the greatness of ND. That stuff goes on everywhere, but that doesn't make it legal.. but then to publicly attack the man because he didn't give you a media high 5 for committing an NCAA violation (that I am sure Charlie didn't know about until then) is idiotic.. As time goes on, a few too many of these greats seem to forget that they are a PART of the tradition... they aren't the tradition themselves. That's not to say the guy hasn't made mistakes. I firmly believe he has. I also believe that we knew we hired a guy who had no HC experience but was an offensive genius. We were getting what we're getting and should have adjusted our expectations accordingly. I think Charlie the head coach this year in MUCH better than Charlie in year one. He's improving as an HC. His replacement hires have all been better than the original hires. I see progress. We're moving forward. Sometimes we're moving in leaps and bounds (offensive skill players) other places were are slowly moving forward (OL and tackling) but it is still progress. That beats the ever loving hell out of 15 years of steady decline. To me at least. Over on NDN the other day, ElK was making a series of posts explaining his position in a back and forth with some poster there. JVan wrote a note about 'You are casting pearls to swine' and then went on a long diatribe about the ignorance of these 'non-real ND fans who have never even seen real Notre Dame football' and the only sin these people did was hold out hope for Weis!! That statement flies in the face of what made ND the nationwide phenomenon. He isn't a lone a-hole. There is a massive number of ND fans who are just like Johnny.. they are legion. I vowed off that site the other night. Sure some people called him out, but the board ops didn't and that to me shows they know less about ND football than I thought. I understand fully that almost none of these people have built a program. They take their marginal to great business success and apply that model to football. From there, they somehow extract that they understand the formula for success in all things including football. There was a point in time in which an ND football coach could take as many QBs as he wanted.. Now we have to carefully select one or two per class..if that many. We've gone from battling for 3 star projects with a highlight of a 4star kid who was an ND fan anyway (Brady Quinn) to looking at nothing but the nation's elite 4 and 5 star signal callers. We've come a long, long way in a fairly short period of time and I can't believe more people don't see this. I want to see this guy's full body of work. I want to consider the intangibles and obstacles that he faced. How did he handle them? Will the team follow him? Are we getting better? These are the things that I want to consider at the end of the year and not a day before.
I'm not for one moment suggesting that anything be considered before this season is in the books. Nor am I hoping for his failure. I think by the time this season is over we will all be on the same page, one way or the other.
If I'm reading the anti-Weis crowd right. It's not so much that they hope Weis fails, they fear he will succeed in a limited way. They fear he'll go 9-3 against a schedule that isn't as challenging as a traditional ND schedule and that he'll be 9-3 going forward. That he won't ever be a Nat'l Champ coach but also never bad enough to fire him. They fear acceptance of his good not great record signals the end of any hope to return ND Football to where it was in the good Holtz years.
My problem with the anti-Weis crowd is that they are delusional about hiring another coach. They believed that Gruden was going to come to ND. (Why? He had a very high paying NFL job and had recently gotten to the Super Bowl.) They thought that Meyer was available and would jump at the chance. (He'd already been signed sealed and delivered before they got on the plane.) They think that top coaches would be willing to line up to jump at a chance to coach a restricted recruiting program with delusional alumni. There's a reason why we didn't hire a head coach with a good resume the last time.
Amen, Vic. The silent majority. It was interesting to sit in Purdue's stadium and see pockets of empty seats, something I haven't seen for almost 40 years at ND. I've returned to my senses following my Sunday rant, and I am pleased to see this outpouring of support for the program and for Coach Weis. Judy and I just celebrated our 40th. Life is good. I'm glad she didn't fire me during my losing years.
Sid, 1. Congrats to you and your lovely bride. 2. I should be so lucky to sit next to your and Brian during an ND game. That would have been a hoot. All, Random thought.. and Im just tossing it out there.. let's say Chuck goes 9-3 or (gasp) 10-2... but at the end of the day we wind up playing a schedule made up of 10 or 11 bowl teams? I'm looking at our schedule. It's possible Washington gets to a bowl. Right now the teams in 'danger' are Purdue, Michigan State and Washington State. I gotta think that at least one, if not two of them will turn it around to get to the minimum record.. Bare with me a moment.. 1. Nevada is 0-3 but their schedule gets a lot easier. They've shown character. A rebound is not out of the question. They could finish with a record similar to last year's. 2. Michigan. They are almost bowl eligible now 3. Michigan State. They are sitting at 1-3 now. Take a peek at their schedule. They can break the 6 win mark. 4. Purdue. Same as Michigan State. They hung toe to toe with Oregon and ND who are better than a good many teams left on their schedule. If Coach Hope can keep hope alive, they will get to that 6/7 win spot. 5. Washington. This is the year everyone goes 7-5 in the Pac10. They are already 2-2. This weeks ND game has a lot of meaning to Washington. 6. USC. May not be an NC team, but they will go bowling. 7. Boston College. They were suppose to be way down this year. Yet there they sit at 3-1 They're already halfway there and the ACC is always good to cough up 3 cheap wins somewhere along the way. 8. Navy is 2-2 with losses AT Ohio State and AT Pitt. They will go bowling. 9. Pitt-They will go bowling. 10. UCONN. they are 3-1, half way to bowl eligible. 11. Stanford. I have no idea what the hell is going on up there but the Cardinal aren't bad and they may well finish as high as 3rd in the Pac10 this year.. Washington State is the one I think is in the most risk of not doing it. They found their QB though. That true freshman who came on vs USC was fantastic. He'll become the 1st true freshman to start for Wazzu since Drew Bledsoe this weekend.. Still, they lack a few more horses.
Corey, I'm not sure you asked a question in there but what those of us who doubt Weis' abilities as a HC want to see are occasional victories over ranked teams and good showings and some victories in a BCS bowl game. To date we have gone hungry. The last three BCS games the Irish were in we were demolished. That is the true measure of a program that considers itself among the elite.
Corey with regards to your theory that we might play as many as 11 bowl team, I hope that it turns out that way, but the one thing lacking in that 11 is how many BCS bowl teams? Only USC is likely, and with so many teams going to bowls these days it would seem like most teams will play a lot of bowl teams.
George, My point being... what is the measuring stick. Terry posted after you with something of substance.. BCS bowl teams... but how many teams even play multiple BCS bowl teams? The schedule is/was perceived as weak although a few pundits are backing off that claim as they thought Michigan, Stanford and Washington would be horrible. So how do we quantify what is an acceptable record and what quantifies a good schedule Terry makes a good point that USC is the only one at this time that strikes most as a BCS bowl team, but there are a few that still may wind up in a BCS game depending on how they do in their conference..
Again, my expectations are reasonable considering the stature of the Irish football program over time. I would like a record against ranked teams somewhat better than the current 2-16 or whatever it is. And, when we do qualify for a BCS bowl, I would like to be competitive and win one every once in a while. We have not seen this under Charlie. Maybe this year?
Interesting reads guys. Hey Sid, congratulations, Jeanne and I are about 6 years ahead of you youngsters but it seems a bunch of us are in kind of the same range. Dang good read Corey I don't claim to be a Notre Dame fan, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express one time. Listen, from an outsider your coach has been an outstanding recruiter since he came on board. Sam Young was a guy the Gators really wanted and you got him. Every year Charlie has been there he gets a top recruiting class. That cannot help but pay off and I think it will. Anyway as just a unbiased observer I think that Corey and Gipper have the right outlook and to get rid of Charlie now could set you back. Just my 2 cents.