As you can see my state of New Jersey leads the list with the highest tax burden in the land. There is lots of blame to go around. The least responsible is probably George Bush. The most responsible is undoubtedly Congress. Decades of buying votes through favorable legislation has finally overflowed and is drowning us all.And now they are trying to cover their anointed asses by throwing what's left of our money and future generation's at the very problems they helped create. A lot of blame can be directed at the banking industry. They are living in some kind of fantasy world where they inadvertantly plot their own demise with predatory lending practices, over expansion and paying themselves exhorbitant, shameless salaries and bonuses. And all the while displaying the business acumen of a tree stump. The BOA examples I've been posting are Exhibit A. They have taken the initial $25B and done nothing but expand their empire while totally ignoring their customers. Others have presumably done the same since nobody in Congress can tell you where the money went. Think about this.... while credit has practically evaporated and small and mid size businesses are slowly dying away as a result, these banks are using their customers money to invest in foreign banks and to bonus themselves. The message? We are in it for ourselves... our customers are not a good bet. How worthless is an IOU from the state of California?
I started to quote part of your last post George but hell....I like everything you are saying there. Bush isn't soley to blame but he has been our leader for the past 8 eight years and our economy has gone to hell in a handbasket. You can't blame Bush soley and you can't be serious Corey about blaming Pelosi or California. Congress is a bingo! though. There is a lot of blame to go around certainly. I hope that when Obama gets going his team finally plays some hardball with all of those who are to blame for this mess and the whip is cracked and cracked hard. Maybe it will take the threat of jail time to get these assh*les in line because nothing else seems to work. And Corey.....how many times do I have to cite articles about the credit crunch? You guys really and truly think somehow this was all made up? I agree with premises proffered up in this article: http://moneynews.newsmax.com/investing/tarp/2009/01/14/171208.html
We're about to find out George. I wonder if the utility companies or mortgage lenders take IOU's backed from the state of California? Will JOCO be paid any interest on the money owed? Dave- You simply are not getting this. You cannot say that Congress is to blame and then NOT hold Pelosi, Inc accountable for her actions.. In one breath you want Bush to be blamed for 'being our leader' while excusing Pelosi as the House Majority leader.. These same people who have now become the power structure of the DNC are many of the same people who ran California right into the ground. This isn't a Johnny-come-lately excuse, I've been bitching about this since the 90s. The Pelosi, Feinstein, Boxer etc cabal has been an enormous clusterf*** that people not only continue to vote for.... they continue to put them in positions of higher and greater power. This isn't 'blame California'... This is about blaming and holding accountable the right people. Do you remember ANY of her promises about the first 100 days in office after the elections?!?!?!? For as far back as I can remember, you've claimed to be some sort of moderate/former Republican type who has been blasting away at Bush and the Republicans while blindly refusing to admit that much of the blame in this current situation has way more to do with both parties than it does any one person. You want to rip Bush for the lending crisis, without ever once considering that it was horse sh*t legislation with roots deep in previous administrations... You look, continually, for an easy scapegoat without ever once letting the truth of the matter get in your way.
I willing to assess blame on whomever should get it and that includes Democrats and Pelosi. http://blog.acton.org/archives/2516-The-Credit-Crisis-Who-Brewed-the-Stupid-Juice.html What I am not willing to do is allow 700 billion dollars to get distributed amongst a few banks and not have that money rigidly tracked with regard to bank credit loosening up to the average American consumer and business. Note I said average...not just those of sterling credit ratings but certainly not those of the lowest credit ratings either. I want this TARP money to get in the right hands to restart our economy as fast as possible. That's what I want.
.....this thread is so full of uninformed judgements, misguided notions and rhetorical nonsense and almost totally devoid of facts, logic and rational thought it is too far gone......there is no hope. I'm not even going to try.....carry on.
Well....both parties were on GMA today blaming the Treasury Dept in the previous administration for not being able to provide answers with regard to where the TARP money went. Unbelievable.....
It's unbelievable that the American people and their Congress demand to know what in the hell the financial institutions have done very very specifically...not cryptically....with 350 billion dollars of TARP money and the answers are not in yet!!!!
No, what is unbelievable is that the American people continue to trust this Congress to write blank checks in the forms of bailouts and then when they do so without any real regard to how this money will be spent, they cry because the money is not spent to their liking... Yet it isn't Congress' fault. I still don't believe that you mean this.
.....the answers are not in yet because it is an impossible question to answer. They can tell you that they provided a grant to an underprivileged childrens program in Detroit, but they can't tell you if that was TARP money or John Smith's investment. New money or old money? Not unlike the shower example......which part was newly heated or which part was left in the tank? It is so much political posturing.....those that demand it, either are naive or worse or if they are not and do in fact appreciate that it can not be done are simply posturing and just need to stfu because they are just so much noise pollution and its a complete absolute waste of time and energy......one of the many reasons that I hate politics.
Seems to me Bush was pretty instrumental in getting the TARP fund bail-out done: http://edition.cnn.com/2008/BUSINESS/10/14/world.markets/index.html It also seems that they were pretty specific about money not going toward things like executive salaries and golden parachutes. What about 50 million dollar private jets?? I guess Citi Group makes the jet set Big Three look like amateurs. Corey....you keep blaming Congress...and I detect a hint of blaming Democrats in particular.... http://articles.latimes.com/2008/sep/20/business/fi-bushmarkets20
Very specific.....as a condition of the investment the list of prohibitions on executive comp is quite lengthy, but that's with any money, new or old. You just can't do it..... But.....that is not your question.........
Interesting to me that you are so sure of this. Why is there then such a public outcry and a dog and pony show by both sides of the floor acting like they are concerned about where it went, demanding some concrete answers in the process, etc.... when all along everyone...including Skybox memebers know that the answer isn't even available. If that is truly the case then they shouldn't have given the banks a damned dime and certainly shouldn't give them any more.....in spite of what Bush so strongly suggested was needed.
.....nothing interesting about common sense. After you figure out the shower and the water heater question, let me know......
Many in the American public, including you, begged and demanded that the President get off his arse and do something. I was against the bailout then, I am against it now. I am against bailouts of this nature. I am 100% against President Bush on that.. And with that being said.... the spending is done by Congress. Civics 101. Accountability of said spending is done by Congress. Civics 101 day 2. Congress controls the purse strings of the nation. If you don't like the way the nation is spending, blame Congress. As for the big 3 looking like amateurs, the corporate world has been doing that for better than 25 years. Only those with their fingers knuckle deep in their ears, wearing a blindfold didn't see that..
As I said when the Detroit execs got hell for their jets, CEO's and senior execs of multi-national companies with operations, customers, suppliers, investors and regulators spanning all corners of this vast planet of ours and a finite amount of time in which they can do business cannot do the things they need to do, see the people they need to see nor perform the tasks they need to perform on a timely basis without private jets......can't be done. If I'm an investor in Citi, which we all are, I don't believe it's in anybody's interest to make these guys perform with one hand tied behind their back......now do they need a new, one or a new $50 million model that is subject to debate, but do they need a private jet. In my view yes, it's a necessary cost of doing business at that level, on that scale.....just because its a nice way of getting around doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do....
I absolutely agree with you on the corporate jet issue BT. Until they figure out a way to go completely virtual in their management strategy these guys need to be able to get where they are going as fast as they can get there. I am just po'd that Citi gets hundreds of billions more than Detroit with no questions asked while the Big Three get skewered for one day's trip by corporate jet and yet Citi thinks nothing of spending 50 mil on a new plane.
Obama wins again. It was reported last night that Citi won't be picking up that jet... Also, when that company lays off the people to compensate for the loss of that sale.. who do I direct the phone calls to? By the way, check out the comments on this update... I find it ironic that the first one is from 'Uncle Ho' http://thinkprogress.org/2009/01/27/citigroup-jet-whitehouse/
No question it sucks for the jet salesman and his company. I am just surprised if not appalled that Citi would endeavor to buy this new jet at 50 mil after they received their bail out. I think it shows you just how much disregard they have for the whole system and how much they put themselves above it all. There is an arrogance in this industry that is unmatched by any other. That somehow everything they want to do is their business and they answer to only the beat of only their own internal drum. Well....that's OK until they collapse in unprecedented proportions and then want hundreds of billions of taxpayer's money only to offer no new lending while hoarding their newfound cash except for buying new company jets in the meantime.