Played Oakland Hills "The Monster" yesterday and man oh man what a bear of a course it is becoming just in time for the PGA. I have played there 20 times in the last 15 years and I have not seen it in a more difficult condition...not even before the Ryder Cup. The rough has been overseeded and with all the moisture we have had it is almost impossible to even find your ball much less hit it and advance it. With the length of the par fours and especially #8 and #18 for the pros I see the scores being as high for a major as there ever was. Whatever the record is for high score in a major it will most assuredly be threatened. Good luck fellas.....you'll need it!
I don't recall seeing a PGA played on a course this difficult. It is already a U.S. Open type course and now it's longer....the fairways are narrower.....the shortcut is only 6 feet wide and the long cut is 4 to 5 inches of very thick wirey grass and there is no intermediate cut. Don't know the answer to the groove question Terry....
My son told me that same thing after he played Whistling Straights. VJ and the rest of the crew just ate it up. Unlike at the Open, the PGA doesn't make its championship course "unplayable." That being said, Oakland Hills as a 70 (with 8 and 18 as 4s instead of the usual 5s) is a challenge. BTW we've had a lot of rain this summer and courses here are in great shape.
I know these guys are good....very very good but this course is a par 70 at 7400 yards of length with those narrow fairways, thick angry rough and some of the most wicked green undulations you can find and a zillion bunkers. http://top100golf.blogspot.com/2008/06/oakland-hills-country-club.html I predict possibly plus 4 or 5 wins it.
(1) Don't hit it in the rough. (2) It's July, they (PGA) will have the course cut to PGA champ specs by the tourney in Aug. (3) The PGA Champ is a shotmaking tourney (4) These guys are good. 7400 yards is a walk in the park. (5) -9 or better wins it.
AJ...my boss is a member and I played Wednesday with an employee of the course. Trust me...they are making this a bastard of a course for the pros. Over par somewhere near +3 to +5 will win this thing.
MCG, I could bring up the fact that my 2nd career that I have ventured into has given me a little credibility to be able to give educated commentary on this subject, but that has not much impact since (a), we've never met, (b) we've never discussed anything because of (a). So let me try this anyway, There is a unique difference in the set up/make up/ intention of each Major that is held each year. The PGA Championship is designed and set up to give ALL GOLFERS that qualify for the tournament an opportunity to display their overall skills. Thus the point I made about being a Shot makers tourney. And what I mean by all golfers is that there are quite a few PGA club professionals in the field because it is a TRUE PGA recognized event. And not Just the best shot makers, but the ones that pull it off at the time. You need to take a look at the last 15 years of champions of the Tourney. It's a huge difference between the other Majors because of its setup. Please don't discount the Gippers take or comments on this subject either, I've had the pleasure of swinging the wrenches with the old man, and having a few scotches afterwards. His understanding of the game and it's history are very credible. I'm not in anyway saying your input isn't credible, but I do have a few questions.... (1) what's your boss's HDCP? (2) what is the position of the employee you played with on Wednesday (3) Do you understand that it's the PGA's tourney and not Oakland hills?
My boss has been a member for about 15 years and his hdcp is about a 14. Played with a member of "golf course services" which is probably a mix of things but he reports to the head starter's "shed". He was a fill in because my boss had a matter that kept him from playing that day but he joined us later in the men's grill....which is a very cool 19th hole experience looking out over the 18th hole and 10th tee. The pin placements were especially tough on a few holes that day so I suppose they could make those easier if they choose but the fairways will not get any wider than they are now and all indications are the rough will be as thick or thicker than it is now.....which is impossibly thick in places. For comparison: Baltusrol in 2005 measured 7,392 and was a par 70 and Mickelson won with a -4 Whistling Straits measured 7,514 but was a par 72....Singh won at -8 The highest winning score was Nelson's -1 in 1987....at the PGA National Course in Florida I still contend that the highest winning score of over par will be this year at Oakland Hills. One note...the last two US Opens played at Oakland Hills saw winning scores of -1 and -2. The course has been lengthened and the fairways are narrower and the rough is thicker than I have ever seen it....and I played it just before the Ryder Cup. It will be a bear.
It's good to hear from you AJ. I hope all is going well in your second career and with your growing kids.
Ok, red number winning scores on a venue set up by the USGA specifically for U.S. Open conditions. Green speed (11-12 on the stimpmeter), rough size and fairway widths are completely different from the PGA. Still, the course was played at under par. The PGA, not the USGA set the standards for this tournament. I can almost guarantee that come tourney time, the course will be fair and equitable to ALL GOLFERS. If for whatever reason they change their standards from years past, then I'm probably going to be wrong. They did change their policy on this years rough cuts at Torrey pines, making it a little easier, but not much. The PGA is designed to give everyone a chance. With Tiger out of the field, expect a young journeyman to make a run for it. -8 to -9 wins it.
AJ-----double or nothing..... I'll bet you $20 that the winning score is -3 or higher. I lose we're even.....you lose.....we'll save it for another wager down the road......like maybe if Ohio State makes the NC game after losing to USC.... Seriously.....the golf course employee said the greens will be a 12 or 13. As I said....I have seen the fairway width and it will not change and it is very narrow and the rough is thicker than I have seen it there.
Your on. you've got -3 and higher and I have -4 and lower. Extra $10 says that there's no way the stimpmeter runs that quick. :shock:
The greens typically do run that quick come tournament time (at least a 12) at Oakland Hills but I don't know for sure what they will be for the PGA so I will pass on that bet.
Sid, Always great to hear from you also. Sorry for the late reply but I was concentrating on pressing issues/posts One thing I've always made a commitment to, (to the best of my ability) was to get to meet as many people as possible on this board that I/we have been communicating with for years (15 + ?). I would be honored to have the opportunity to share some time with you should we have the opportunity to do so. We should always keep the AJ in NJ scenario fresh in our minds. As a CWO-5 once told me, "The funny thing about life is that NONE of us are gonna make it out alive....so stop trying. It's a bus ride...enjoy the view cause your stop will come. I have been extremely busy with getting my Class A PGA professional rating, so that has kept me from being active on this board. I guess I don't have as much time as the rest of you old farts do. As far as my kids (Thanks for asking), Taylor (the Golfer) has established his alpha male status at my club. He dismantled last years 9 hole champion the other day with a 39 on a par 35. Only the 3rd time he's played the course. Taylors 12.....the ex champ just turned 15. His little brother (Chase) could care less about golf. His mission in life is terrorizing his big brother and picking fights daily. Remember the following statement after this paragraph. My older brother toped out at 6-2. I hit the charts at 5-11. I'm pretty sure the genes we're passed to my kids. The oldest at 12 is already wearing a mans size 8.5 shoe. He's tall and lean. the little brother isn't anywhere near the height his brother was at his age. He's gonna be built like a brick **** house. Older one = (1) Pitcher, (2) Golfer Little brother = Bo Pellini's dream walk-on FB The edge goes to the little brother...that is one mean little ****. Bo's gonna love him...
Golf is not gentic, AJ... Thank God, or my boys wouldn't have a chance. I have two single digit handicap sons who can really bring it...I have been stuck in the 12-14 range for decades. :? I can still beat my third son, though. But he's getting better.