Interesting piece over on ESPN. He hasn't got the stats of somebody like Roger Clemens, nor does he have the stats of Tommy John, Bert Bleyleven, or Jack Morris who are not in the HOF. But he's certainly been a clutch player who has some rings. Interesting article. Me: I don't think he's a HOF pitcher. Schilling HOF or Not?
Not a chance. He is neither a compiler of inflated stats nor was he the dominant pitcher of any part of his time. Mike Mussina has won 262 games. Does he belong in? I say no.
Gip, For six years Koufax may have been the greatest of all time. He dominated the first half oft he 60's. Where's JO'Co when I need him? Corey?
I remember SK well. But at what point does an injury shortend career make it? For instance Tony Coniglaro was a sure fire HOFer but had his career shortened by a beanball. If Schilling makes it with 216 wins and 146 losses what do they do with a guy who has 215 wins and 147 losses? Who has that career record.....Kenny Rogers.
I say borderline but playing for Philly and no run support doesn't help. I do think he should be in HOF if Phil Rizzuto is.....Both for their mouths...ha
It is supposed to be a place to honor the best of the best. It has definitely been compromised already, almost always for sentimental reasons. If Schilling indeed merits entry, then we must include these pitchers, who have equal stats in many cases except one.... they all have more wins. Frank Tanana Jerry Reuss Luis Tiant Jamie Moyer David Wells Dennis Martinez Jack Morris Mike Mussina Jim Kaat Bert Blyleven and on and on... All very good pitchers to be sure. But at any point in their careers did any of you consider them at the pinnacle of their craft. For even one year?
My vote........Not. I like him a lot. I have enjoyed his competitiveness. He clearly is one of the best pitchers of the last 10-12 years, but IMO not of his entire era. His stats cannot possibly get him in. He has a very admirable post-season record, but it's not enough. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. P.S. Terry, did you notice that I agreed with you. :wink:
I never have liked the guy. I always thought he got way too much credit when he was a Phillie that he didn't deserve. However, when he was with the Diamondbacks and later with the Red Sox winning World Series, he was quite dominant. I think it's a borderline case. I definitely think he's one of the top 10 pitchers of the last 15 years. Where do you make the cutoff for the HOF? I think these guys who are in a similar age bracket are in: Maddux Clemens (unless he gets shut out b/c of steroids) Glavine Johnson Pedro Smoltz (although I admit it may be borderline) Who am I leaving out? If there isn't anybody else, then is Schilling the 7th best SP of that "generation"?
Well, if he deserves it then David Wells should go 1st ballot. Hell, every one on my list gets in! :lol:
George, Read the beginning of Corey's post above, next to "Post subject:". He's saying that Maddux has to be in the HOF, not Schilling. It took me a while to figure out that Corey always starts the first sentence of his posts on the "Post subject" line. His first sentences always looked weird to me until the light bulb above my head got turned on. IMO, Maddux is a no doubter. The one on Aquila's list I'm not sure of is Pedro.
1997 Mon 241.1 IP 305 K 17 W 8 L 1.90 ERA 1998 Bos 233.2 IP 251 K 19 W 7 L 2.89 ERA 1999 Bos 213.1 IP 313 K 23 W 4 L 2.07 ERA 2000 Bos 217.0 IP 284 K 18 W 6 L 1.74 ERA 2001 Bos 116.2 IP 163 K 7 W 3 L 2.39 ERA 2002 Bos 199.1 IP 239 K 20 W 4 L 2.26 ERA 2003 Bos 186.2 IP 206 K 14 W 4 L 2.22 ERA That is quite a seven year stretch for Pedro's case. Granted injuries have hurt his career and even hurt him during this seven year stretch but I think he was the dominant pitcher during this time frame. I'm not a big fan of Pedro but, in his prime, he was awesome.
Laid out like that, it shows that those years indeed were awesome years for him. Who knows? I'm not saying he doesn't deserve to be in, but I'm not sure that he was dominant enough over a long enough period of time to warrant entry. Of course, Gip's comparative argument about Sandy Koufax is valid in this case. It's hard to find any pitcher, HOF or not, who was as dominant over a 7 yr period as Pedro was. I'm curious enough to look up Sandy Koufax' year-by-year stats. If I have time, I'll do that and report back.