and done <t>well I will admit that I did just scan the last few dozen pages which are photo copies of checks, personal notes etc but i did finish the meat and taters portion. its sad.<br/> <br/> there are a lot more names who should be on this list, and they simply aren't.<br/> <br/> I hate to see the players being singled out in this. The owners knew, the trainers knew, the sports media knew, their lawyers knew. They all didn't care. Juice was they ignition for the resurgence of MLB in the last 15 to 20 years. They all cheered when guys built incredible frames, they harder/longer and the balls flew out of the park. The cash registers were ringing for everyone. Those without direct knowledge were only 'out of the loop' because they took a 'don't ask don't tell' approach. They can point to players lying about it in recent years, but they can't possibly say they didn't know from the start.<br/> <br/> <br/> Guys who are career 20/30 HR guys simply do not hit start hitting 60 bombs a year in their late 30s/40s. Power pitchers don't last well into their 40s especially in 'peak' condition..<br/> <br/> They knew it and they all turned a blind eye. Today's a day of shame for ALL in mlb.</t>
A link to the US News and World story providing the names listed in Mitchell's report. http://cbs2chicago.com/national/Mitchell.report.baseball.2.609138.html#playerlist
I'm for kicking them all out of baseball, ala Pete Rose. At the very least expunge all of their records. How did Sammy Sosa escape this? He was freakishly huge. He looked like Lou Ferrigno in the Incredible Hulk. Would it be easier to clean up baseball or just name Vince McMahon as the new commissioner?
Wow! No similarity at all to the first list we saw. What a shame that false information is so rampant, but I agree with Corey that there likely are names that escaped inclusion on the real list for whatever reasons. Thanks, Bobda.
Whew, I was glad to see Mark Prior and Kerry Wood were not on the second list. I was quite surprised to see them on the first. And now I'm just as surprised to not see Sammy on the second!
I have to admit I've taken Medrol (in dose pak form) a number of times...it's not an anabolic steriod though it mainly helped me with a posion ivy rash and some other allergy type stuff!! No help to the golf game...damn it!!
A list from Yahoo Sports which also combed the Mitchell report. http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ys-mitchellnames121307&prov=yhoo&type=lgns I agree with Corey. It looks like many of the names came from only a few sources who had been busted. My guess is that there were a lot more users who were able to fly under the radar screen because their sources were not caught by the feds. To me, the primary finger of blame can be pointed at Don Fehr. He put up roadblock after roadblock to prevent drug testing and was able to do it because the player's union was so strong. It was only when Congress got involved did we see real efforts made to clean up the game. What a sewer baseball is.
This list came primarily from the New York Mets associate who got busted. Mitchell's says it is not a complete list, more like the "tip of the iceberg". Besides the obvious physical appearance changes ( Dykstra, Sosa, McGwire, Giambi, Boone, Anderson, Bonds etc ) there are the injury ramifications. Guys start breaking down on this stuff.... Clemens, Boone, McGwire, Etc. To that end I would not have been surprised to see Prior or Wood on there since they live on the DL. Did I call Gagne or what?
bobda's got it <r><QUOTE><s> </e></QUOTE> <br/> in the name of the union, brotherhood and the 'sake of the players', they tarnished an entire generation of baseball's finest. some of whom had already been on record setting paces <B><s></s>before they got on the steroids<e></e></B>.<br/> <br/> the owners knew, the media knew, everyone knew. the use was widespread. they all laughed at ken caminiti as a broken, bitter fool. i would bet, and i'd bet a lot on this, that his stats are a lot closer to the reality of it all.</r>
Corey, I agree with you completely. Tarnishing all these players for operating within a broken system is not right... Where are all the names of the suppliers...the trainers...the administrators...the union...who all knew about this and was part of it?...who are responsible for allowing a system to happen where many (most?) players felt that they had to use in order to compete for their jobs.
I can't believe I'm actually reading the report page by page. Even though my interest in baseball has waned, I can't seem to not be intrigued by this. I do have one main issue with the report. There has been alot of grumblings about Mitchell's position as a director with the Boston Red Sox and whether he could be completely unbiased. Personally I think it was a mistake to have someone with any affiliation whatsoever perform this evaluation, but I don't make any allegations even with some odd coincidences. One thing I really do take issue with is the fact that on pages 100 and 101, Mitchell reports that the bullpen catcher for the Marlins in 2002 was caught dealing drugs of all kinds, and he agreed to interview at that time with Kevin Hallinan-the Commissioner Selig's senior VP of Security. In that interview Perez (the bullpen catcher) admitted to dealing some form of drug to every player on that team, from marijuana to cocaine to greenies to steroids. he named 8 players specifically receiving steroids from him. Mitchell declined naming those 8 players in this report as he considered it uncoroberrated second hand information. Further into the report on page 158 Mitchell makes mention of Brian Roberts by name. Brian Roberts lived with Larry Bigbie and David Segui, both of whom admitted using steroids. Bigbie stated that at no time while they lived together did Brian Roberts use steroids at all, while Segui and Bigbie both did. He said that Roberts mentioned to him in conversation that he used steroids once or twice prior to them living together. Secondhand information again, only this time Mitchell deemed it ok to openly name Roberts. Someone please explain to me how information from the SENIOR VP OF SECURITY is somehow not reliable enough that Mitchell felt it unfair to name the 8 players on the Marlins, yet he had no qualms with naming Roberts on a statement from Bigbie that Roberts told him he used them "once or twice before"? To me that is absurd. Now I make no accusations towards Mitchell, but this is exactly why Mitchell was a horrible choice in heading this investigation. The entire league, from the commish, owners, management, players, trainers, and even bat boys have actively taken some part in denying any knowledge whatsoever of steroid use in baseball when it was blatantly obvious they did. Employing someone who has a vested interest in MLB was a real slap in the face. While I don't believe this to be the case, what is to stop someone from speculating that Josh Beckett was one of those 8 players, and the reason they are unnamed is because Beckett happens to be the ace pitcher for the Red Sox-the team that Mitchell just so happens to be a director for?
That's an interesting thought. I wonder if the media sharks will see the same kind of smoke in that scenario that you described. If they do, they'll certainly be relentless in pursuing the possible fire.
I'm honestly shocked that it hasn't been brought up. To me it's a blatant case of questionability on the report as a whole. I would love to hear Mitchell give reasoning on the difference between the two because I certainly can't see it. Personally, I think the Roberts report should be omitted more so than the 8 Marlins. Secondhand information from a player is far less viable that from the senior vp of security, especially when Mitchell mentions that Hallinan did believe Perez was a credible source. Something stinks about that.