That knew this year would be a struggle for ND better get ready. After watching J. Brown get his dumb a-- thrown out of the game for a personal foul and that is after getting his brains beat out for the entire first half this year looks butt ugly. Jones is lost as a goose and has no arm at all. He actually has to wind up to throw a flat pass. The kid looks pitiful. Weis has to make a change here but that brings me to the real embarrassment of the first half the group up front that as a group cannot block anyone. Take your pick they all look awful. On defense they look better with the new schemes but clear lack of talent as usual on the D-Lines with no defensive end play and slow linebackers like last year. We are getting eaten up by the OU transfer Choice. Long year coming no doubt.
Ga. Tech is a good team, and this game isn't over yet. Defense has looked much improved, and I can't get over how many freshman and sophomores are playing on both sides of the ball. Charlie needs to call some protection packages to stave off the jailbreak-like blitz's we're facing. I'm sure he hasn't thought of that yet. :wink: Second half starting now ....
Bob.. <t>Let me ask you something? With 3 minutes to go does the ND O-Line and backs look like they spent 10 seconds on blitz pickups since practice started? Wait till this beauty of a game film circulates among the next few teams we play.</t>
Too many negatives to even talk about so I'll concentrate on the positives: Better days are ahead, I'm sure of that. Despite giving up 33 points and almost 400 yards (mostly to one player) I thought the defense was pretty good, especially considering how long they were on the field. The secondary is unquestionably improved. Trevor Laws came to play today, as did Ryan, Kuntz, and Vernaglia. Offensively, John Carlson was great when the QB-by-committee could get him the ball. If I remember it correctly, of the first five offense players (including the kickoff) to touch the ball today, four were freshman or sophomores. Sharpley was solid considering he was bleeding in a pool full of sharks. Clausen made some really good throws today, regardless of who was in the game for Tech at that point. Charlie has a tough decision to make at QB for next week. One more positive; at least Ga. Tech is a D1A school. :wink: I'm going to go continue drinking. Maybe by 10 PM I won't remember the negatives.
Now we know why Weis didn't name a QB. He didn't have one. 8) I turned it off at 26-3 so I did not see Clausen. I thought Sharpley was OK considering he only had about 1.5 secs to pass before getting swarmed under every play. The shock of the day had to be the O-Line which is the worst I've ever seen at ND. To a man they were completely outplayed in every phase. The second surprise, to me, was our punter stinking most of the time. With Crist coming in next year, Jones may as well beat the Christmas rush and transfer now. Either that or learn a new position.
George.. <t>Even more disturbing was the fact there was not one adjustment made at halftime to do ANYTHING to correct the mess up front. All those linemen signed the last couple years and we play like that? <br/> I didn't expect a great deal this year regarding a great record but to not even be competitive with GT?<br/> On the punter yes he was awful as well. <br/> Lets just hope Weiss and staff can hold the class committed in light of what they will be watching the rest of the year.</t>
Obviously ND has got a ways to go before the magic returns. I thought they were not there yet and Ga Tech proved it more than I would have suspected. Now you will see what kind of coach Weis truly is if he can somehow pull off some kind of renewed effort and maybe even a winning season after today's poor start. It's possible Ga Tech is one of the country's best teams and that would serve hope to the ND Nation if it were true.
I think most of us saw the same things. We looked like a JV team. Starting Demetrius and his special package of plays was a roll of the dice, but we crapped out. He simply doesn't have the passing ability or defense recognition skills to hold the QB position in Charlie's offense. By the time those skills are developed, the other QBs, especially Clausen, will be far beyond him. When Crist gets there, he'll be gone... It seems obvious after the fact that Clausen is heads above the others, but you can't start a freshman if he isn't ready and he wasn't ready because of the rehab from the surgery. In the meantime, it'll probably be Sharpley holding the fort, with Demetrius holding a clipboard. I think Charlie will expedite Clausen's transition to starting QB ASAP... I'll now go over the other areas. My opinions seem to agree most with what BobW has already posted... The Oline: The Oline is a huge problem as we knew it might be. Experience is most important in this area and Tyrone left the cupboard bare. We have only three older guys and Charlie put them all out there: Duncan (OLT), Turkovich (OLG) and Sullivan (OC). All of the other Olinemen in the school are freshmen or sophomores; even the backups. Only Sullivan's job is safe after today. Turkovich was especially clueless and all three could lose their jobs if Charlie decides to just go young across the board... Running backs: The starter and captain may be Travis Thomas, and Junior Jabbe may be a senior, but the best running back in the school is freshman Armando Allen. The next best is sophomore James Aldridge and frosh Robert Hughes adds a power dimension that's unique. The sooner the running game is built around those three the better. Allen adds a breakaway threat the team hasn't had in years... WRs David Grimes did very little today. He couldn't get open and George West looked lost at times. The best WR I saw was Robby Parris. He's not just a big target, he's a big target who works to get himself open and then hangs on to the ball. I think we'll be seeing more of Parris, as well as DJ Hord and freshman Duval Kamara. Grimes and West did not cut it today... TE We still have the best set of TEs in the world. Lets use them! I was amazed that we didn't run any jumbo sets like double-tight or three-TEs... Kicking game We actually seem to have a good kicking game for a change. Price the Punter is an All-American; Nate Whitaker (a walk-on!) kicked off into the endzone and dropped some other kickoffs near the goal line, while freshman Brandon Walker seems to have a great/accurate leg and he's a punter too. The kickers were the only pleasant surprise of the day... Total offense Grade 'F' indeed. Poor line play, clueless QBs and receivers running lazy routes. I expect Charlie to take the chainsaw to this whole mess if they don't get their act together quickly. The older starters are especially vulnerable... Total defense The defense looked pretty darn good. They were on the field all day and seem to have far fewer fundamental problems than the offense... DBs The DBs are the strength of the team. The safeties are super as expected. Bruton is a beast and GT avoided Tommy all day. When substitutions were made, McCarthy and Herring were beastie boys too, so the safety position is set. The CBs looked pretty darn good too, especially when the two super-sophs, Darrin Walls and Raeshon McNeil are on the field at the same time. I see no problems with any of the DBs. They look good... LBs The linebackers are adequate. Vernaglia had a good game for a first-time starter and Toryan Smith really knocks people around. John Ryan made some mistakes, but he also made some good plays. Ryan and Smith are sophs who should improve as the season goes along and the LBs are generally improved from last year... Defensive line Geeeezus... where do I start? Patrick Kuntz was adequate at nose guard. He got blown up once or twice, but overall he was not too shabby for a another guy starting his first game. He will improve with experience. Trevor Laws is thee original beastie boy at DE and GTech tried to avoid him when they could. The other DE end position, however, is a complete disaster. Justin Brown lost his poise after a 3rd down stop and gave GT a first down as he got himself ejected. What kind of senior leadership is that? In his post-game news conference, Charlie called it the turning point of the game. If I were the coach, he would never see the field again. He would become a tackling dummy for the scrub team. His replacement, Dwight Stevenson Jr., gave a Fighting Irish effort, but he just doesn't have much size or talent. He was trucked several times and allowed runners to fold his corner, which is a major no-no in the 3-4. The whole theory of stopping the run in that defense is to contain the running game from the outside in... Summary The offense needs to get its act together ASAP and we need a real DE on the right side. All of the many freshman and sophomores who have been thrown to the lions need to grow up in a hurry. Thanks to Tyrone, they're all we have... ...........Go Irish.........JO'Co
After a night of reflection I would like to expound on JO'Co's thoughts. I'll just follow his outline( afterall, he's a teacher!). I'm not so much disagreeing than offering another perspective. I really want to hear from the other Irish fans as well. The "package" of plays provided for Jones either shows his limitations at QB or Weis' distrust of his abilities. Either way I would suspect he's done at QB. I agree that Clausen will get the job ASAP. Now is fine if he is truly better than Sharpley. Oline: Still shocked. Turkovich, Duncan and Wenger got housed the entire game. I would think those positions are wide open. Running backs: Not sure Thomas ever reached the line of scrimmage. I agree about the three youngsters. Jabbie looked OK. I would like to see Luke Schmidt get a shot at FB. How about two RBS? Schwapp gets a lot of pub but has very little impact on a game. WRs: Grimes and West are too small to be consistent downfield threats. Neither one is over 5'10" which is a stark contrast to what we're used to. Expect Kamara to be starting shortly. Parris is a posession receiver; seems to have good hands. TEs: Agree in principle but the Oline's problems makes us committ the TEs to blocking. Watch for freshman TE Mike Ragone possibly get a shot at WR. Kicking game: You have to believe that Price will be better than yesterday. Our FG was a chip shot so we didn't learn anything there. Kickoffs( both of them ) were good. Defense Line: I'm not sold on the 3-4 as a run defense, especially with this group. I think it helped in pass defense though. Laws is a beast. The rest seem willing. LBs: Adequate. Ryan may be too slow for the outside in a 3-4. Vernaglia looked better on plays going away from him than right at him. The guys in the middle need to step up. D-Backs: Looked better. Not sure yet. Love Bruton. Maybe they are playing away from TZ, maybe not. He did not will himself into this game though. Coaching: It's way past time to stop blaming Tyrone for this. He stunk.. we all know it. But this is year three for Charlie. Time to put up or shut up. Shocking stat: In our last three games we are 0-3 and have been slaughtered in each of them.
I'm not worried <t>The OL sucked something awful. I think our RBs and WRs are terrific. Lets not forget that we overthrew TWO TDs in which one of our smurfs just blew by GTech's top cover corners.<br/> <br/> In fact, I'd say our WRs were open all night. DJ cannot throw. There's clocks that take less time to wind up than that guy's arm. Sharpley simply takes too long to check down through his progression.<br/> <br/> There were players open, we didn't see them. Clausen saw them and he has better pocket presence. Unless there is a a physical injury preventing him from being the guy, I disagree with the pundits, we found our QB and it isn't either Sharpley or Jones.<br/> <br/> Also, hold onto the GD ball. We seemed to be moving it...The zone read option block scheme is a HR type of offense in which you cannot turn it over. That's what our QB did. <br/> <br/> Personally, without that defense this game gets a lot ugly in the first half.<br/> <br/> I like everything about this offense except for the OL...and I wonder how much of that is attributed to the fact they tried to change to a read zone spread option attack in 3 weeks for GTech?<br/> <br/> Remember that one OC from Syracuse who came to ND to stink it up? He did that sh*t.. Run a little bit of everything, but not one thing well. I can't remember his name but you know what I am talking about.<br/> <br/> As for the 'blame Ty'...I dont... Although I do believe the "Ty" factor is something that has, and will haunt this program for one last year... We just don't have alot in the senior and 5th year classes that we'd consider 'big time ND leadership'. Not at this point at least.<br/> <br/> Count the TRUE freshman who played last night...and sophomores.<br/> <br/> There was a point in time under Holtz that a soph had to be all-world to be consdered for PT. Now, we are picking kids out of HS games and they are starting for us in 11 months. Are you kidding me? Dont ever forget that Ty left the cupboard as bare as it has been in a good....50 or so years, maybe more.</t>
In blaming TW for our depth problems I was not excusing Charlie for his obvious mistakes in preparing for this game. I agree 100% with Corey's comments. Let's make a list: 1. We should have kept Zach Frazer. Call me cynical, but I think he kept Demetrius as a recruiting tool for the Chicagoland area. 2. The one-time-only spread option package for Georgia Tech was a dumb idea. I don't like losing either, but damn-it, there's no point stringing this thing out. If we have to take our lumps, because the cupboard was bare and the team is too young, then let's take them now with an offense and players that we're really going to use in the future. 3. Charlie said that he has a responsibility to the 5th-year seniors who stuck around. That's a dodge. His responsibilities are a lot larger than that and he has four other classes (at least) to think about. I'm a big Charlie Weis supporter, but this whole GT plan was too clever by half. Our leader needs to begin cutting right down to the bone and landing hard on the young kids now. There's no advantage in delay... ..........JO'Co
I think JO'Co was right when he said Charlie rolled the dice and came up craps. If' Charlie had called me Aug 1st and said, he doc went to W.Va. to see what they did to slow down that Tech defense and I think that's what we are going to do...I would have have said, you got Pat White, Steve Slaton and the WVA OL to put on ND uniforms for 1 game??? That's where he went wrong thinking that his young OL had a better chance playing a game that they weren't recruited for and haven't practiced much than just manning up and going after them with the offense that they know. I thought Evan Sharpley looked Ok, it was hard to really tell since he was wearing the Ga.Tech defense around his neck most of the time, but I wouldn't be afraid to start him on the road at Penn State esp if Clausen isn't physically ready. Some people are worried that starting Clausen and having Penn State blitz him silly will crush him as a QB. Well all I have to say is I remember Purdue beating Brady Quinn to a pulp in his Freshman year, I think the Purdue front 7 must have knocked him down and/or sacked him 25 or 30 times that night. But they never took away his spirt he got right up off the turf and went back at them. If Clausen can't do that then he needs to go back to California. Terry
As usual.. <t>Good points by all here on the debacle that was Saturday. After reading all the boards and comments from all directions I can't turn loose the performance of this O-Line and the so called preparation by the staff. If any of you guys watched the tape as I did you may NEVER see a group as confused and lost as the entire bunch was. Not one adjustment for sixty minutes. The backup Tech group was pouring in late in the game just like the first of the game.<br/> Last time I looked Weis signed in the class a bunch of highly rated kids on the O-Line in Sam Young's class. You going to tell me all cannot play but him? Do they all have to be juniors at ND to play and play well? <br/> Again get beat in a competitive football game with GT I can take but to just get embarrassed at home in all phases with weeks to prepare is sickening. Penn St wil bring the house Saturday till we show we can stop it and who can blame them.<br/> The coaching staff has their work cut out this week for sure.</t>
I agree. All good points brought up here. I lay the blame on Weis. All the cloak and dagger about the starting QB must have distracted him and he forgot to write a game plan. :lol: That was a totally confused bunch we watched get housed on Saturday.
Few things look worse than a young, inexperienced offense taking on a talented, aggressive defense very early in the season and this was a classic case in point. Hang in there, my instincts tell me that this group is not as bad as it looked and you'll see marked improvement in the weeks and months ahead....that said, it surely ain't gonna be easy for Charlie and these kids. Best of luck fellas.....
thanks T <t>I really think that the OL is the core of the problem. Its young, and OL just isn't one of those places where you 'go get the young talent' and plug it in. I know much has been made on the other boards about some of these guys being in their 3rd year of the program, but again, I point back to the better teams around the country and great ND teams of the past....They are older on the line, even when they lack experience in the game.<br/> <br/> Now with that said..GTech presents perhaps the most complicated pressure scheme in the game today. Penn State cannot present the same type of pressure because they do not play that style of defense. Perhaps the single biggest reason that I haven't wanted to toss the baby out with the bath water regarding the OL is that Chuckles has all but admitted that Clausen WAS the real starter but the surgery prevented them from preparing with him as the #1.. So they came up with a gimmick...<br/> <br/> Problem being, that gimmick involves learning a whole new blocking scheme...<br/> <br/> Chuckles violated one of his own tenants... He came into a game without a real identity. He had a plan, but there was no core to that plan. We can't be a zone read option spread blocking scheme one week and then a pro set offense the rest. It just isnt going to happen.<br/> <br/> This is Chuck's fault. period. I would have rather seen DJ running a pro style offense poorly so we have just ONE player out of style...then trying to change the offense so that we have TEN players out of rhythm and one comfy QB...<br/> <br/> I think, unless he is hurt, Clausen is the QB next week...and I think we look improved.<br/> <br/> This game just may show us the soul of this team. Its in Happy Valley (that's east till you smell it, south till you step in it for those of you who dont know)..The game will be a white out. They will be out for revenge.. They have an awesome pass attack and one of the nation's best defensive backfields...and then will stack 8 in the box and dare us to throw.<br/> <br/> Let's see what we've got.</t>
May not mean much to you guys, but Ga. Tech's defense held Brady and co. to 14 points last year, and they returned eight starters. They're damn good.
The O line is the most important part of a football team. It lets a team control the football and therefore the game. Without it, the QB hasn't his timing, the RBs do not have holes and the defense just doesn't get a rest. The good news is that it wasn't a general breakdown but one that was concentrated in one place. There are some tough road games ahead against some very good defenses (UCLA in particular.) This O line better grow up and improve very quickly. It is times like Sat. that I really miss Joe Moore.