Subject: Hooray MI State Date: Mon 21 May 2007 11:43 AM Professor Tells Muslims to Leave Country Hooray for Michigan State University ! Well, what do we have here? Looks like a small case of some people being able to dish it out, but not take it. Let's start at the top. The story begins at Michigan State University with a mechanical Engineering professor named Indrek Wichman. Wichman sent an e-mail to the Muslim Student's Association. The e-mail was in response to the students' protest of the Danish cartoons that portrayed the Prophet Muhammad as a terrorist. The group had complained the cartoons were "hate speech." Enter Professor Wichman. In his e-mail, he said the following: Dear Moslem Association: As a professor of Mechanical Engineering here at MSU I intend to protest your protest. I am offended not by cartoons, but by more Mundane things like beheadings of civilians, cowardly attacks on Public buildings, suicide murders, murders of Catholic priests (the latest in Turkey ), burnings of Christian churches, the continued persecution of Coptic Christians in Egypt, the imposition of Sharia law on non-Muslims, the rapes of Scandinavian girls and women (called "whores" in your culture), the murder of film directors in Holland and the rioting and looting in Paris, France. This is what offends me, a soft-spoken person and academic, and many, many of my colleagues. I counsel your dissatisfied, aggressive, brutal, and uncivilized slave-trading Moslems to be very aware of this as you proceed with your infantile "protests." If you do not like the values of the West - see the 1st Amendment - you are free to leave. I hope for God's sake that most of you choose that option. Please return to your ancestral homelands and build them up yourselves instead of troubling Americans. Cordially, I. S. Wichman Professor of Mechanical Engineering
I should have added that the MSU administration rejected demands that the professor be censored and be made to attend "sensetivity sessions. It relied on the fact that the e-mail was private. The pofessor respnded that he hoped it would be made public.
We are fractured nation in many ways, seemingly without much of a moral compass anymore. We can think of unlimited ways to create rifts amongst ourselves. But in a sick and perverse way the Islamists may give us back what we ourselves have squandered; we may find one another again and direct our angers and frustrations toward a common target, namely those who would eradicate us. Kudos to the Spartans.
This guy got torched for what he said but it has some truth to it: http://www.philly.com/dailynews/col...___To_save_America__we_need_another_9_11.html
"Americans have turned their backs because the war has dragged on too long and we don't have the patience for a long slog. We've been in Iraq for four years, but to some it seems like a century. In contrast, Britain just pulled its soldiers out of Northern Ireland where they had been, often being shot at, almost 40 years." I don't think Britain lost 3,000 troops in any given 4 year period in N. Ireland...maybe not in the whole conflict. I doubt 100,000 Irishmen have lost their lives either and it probably cost Britain a very small fraction of what Iraq has cost. I ask....WHO is responsible for Iraq? Most Americans were very skeptical from the start on our motivations for invading Iraq. Iraq is GWB's mess....and Dick Cheney's mess....plain and simple.
Tell us, MCG, how he should get out of this MESS without opening the door for terrorists to fight us here on American soil on a daily basis. Tell us how you would fix this rather than just tossing grenades on a daily basis. It is so easy to criticize others. Try offering suggestions and you may be taken more seriously.
I could really get in a pi@@ing match over the "taken seriously" comment but I won't. I think most take me seriously and sometimes maybe too much. In any event I was venting a little on the mess and who caused it and you're right I didn't offer the solution. I do wonder though about this "follow us back home" theory. To me that theorizes that all Al Queda is somehow infiltrated and bunkered down in Iraq and if we just eradicate them there then we are home free. That idea is preposterous as Al Queda and their supporting extremists factions are spread throughout the world already and probably growing in numbers because of our militaristic actions in Iraq. Being in Iraq may suppress them there but it GROWS the problem elsewhere.
People take a barking dog seriously until it barks all day and all night without ever changing its tone for weeks and months at a time. With the war, I don’t even hear the barking anymore. Different situation... Here you are referring to your over indulgence in bragging about the Gators ad nauseum in the face of Ohio State fans. I'm just releaved that you found an intity other than Tennessee on which to focus. :wink:
Interesting you choose to focus on old issues and infer personal insult instead of responding to what I said about Iraq. You guys have never been able to tolerate political views different than those of the rightwing majority here and that has always been a fault of this forum. Skybox is an autocracy in practice on politics and to some degree on the sports discussions as well.
:?: :?: :?: Where :?: I merely quoted facts that have been in evidence for quite some time now. No name calling... no cursing... just facts that nobody but yourself and maybe "Z" would contradict. :?
You guys have never been able to tolerate political views different than those of the rightwing majority here and that has always been a fault of this forum. Skybox is an autocracy in practice on politics and to some degree on the sports discussions as well.
May I interject? I think the problem with Iraq, as with most recent military scenarios we have involved ourselves in, is that we entered into the fray with an open ended strategy. We had no timetable, not even a clear objective beyond deposing Hussein. It took Congress 17 months of stalling before Bush could get approval to invade, giving the iraqis more than enough time to get rid of the WMDs and decentralize their forces. We should have smelled a rat when we marched to Baghdad with an undersized force of our own in less than two weeks with only scattered opposition. The second warning flare was when Colin Powell resigned early on. Bush promised early on that the US would not engage in nation building yet that is exactly what we are doing. As in Vietnam we are fighting an unseen enemy. Al Qaeda has successfully steered us from a position of absolute battlefield superiority to one of door to door guerilla warfare. We are stuck in a protracted skirmish, defending a nation that can barely tolerate us. I was all for the invasion of Iraq and the toppling of Hussein. The Islamists have always hated us and have targeted us since the 70s so I don't buy into the Iraq war being the cause of Islamic hatred of us. Arab casualties mean nothing to me; as far as I'm concerned they are cockroaches. But US casulaties mean everything and we are stuck in a situation with planning "on the fly", no concensus of opinion, and aa malingering ally in the Iraqis. I don't buy into this theory that if we leave they will follow us here. They are already here. I'm all for getting out and letting Islamic nature take its course in Iraq.
Whoa there, Cowboy. You are using a different dictionary, a different definition for what it's called when people express dissenting opinions. You call it intolerance. I call it dissent. One is not related to free speech (a la Hugo Chavez). The other is an inherent characteristic of free speech. For the record, I'm not part of the "rightwing majority" (your words, not mine) on this board, but you definitely are part of a miniscule liberal minority. You simply are bearing the consequences of listening to dissenting views from lots of people. Kind of pisses you off, doesn't it, that you can't convince those folks that your views are the correct ones? No one is prohibiting you from expressing those views, but you know the drill in real life. If you argue politics or religion, you are likely to stir up a hornet's nest. Once again, it's called "dissent" my man. Everyone here is entitled to his/her opinion. You express yours. Others express theirs. What's so intolerant about that?
Yes Sid but I don't denigrate other's opinions down to "no one cares" and "you're not taken seriously" just because it is a different opinion from my own. Certainly I'll continue to disagree and if that sounds like a constant whining that then is just the opinion of the person who disagrees with me. They would just prefer that I give in and follow the crowd and forget my own convictions which I will not do. I wouldn't stay here if I was forced to change my stance on issues constantly even though there is strong pressure sometimes for me to do just that. George is an example of someone whose opinion has changed on Iraq. People are not thinking very logically if given new information they are unable to form new opinions. Opinions are formed by the assimilation of available data and then coming to a reasonable conclusion. When new data is available it's time to reassess one's thinking. By the way George you know I agree on the anti-Islamists views that you have but I am willing to have the U.S. continue to play the political games necessary to sustain peace in the Middle East. Being in Iraq now serves no purpose to the U.S. Al Queda is spread out all over and as I said they are easily growing in their numbers with our "Iraq jihad cause" that we continue to provide them. My solution as before is to save our resources in the military and build our airstrike capabilities and if a government forms in Iraq that is unacceptable and dangerous to us and it's neighbors we just go in and destroy it via air. We do not however send in ground troops anywhere for a drawn out guerrilla war that can't be won. Your analysis of how the Sunni insurgents just dropped their weapons as members of Saddam's army and melted into the countryside only to IED us later is dead-on accurate.
Wrong answer, MCG. I, at least, do not take you seriously because after hearing the same thing, valid or not, for the 12,593rd time, I no longer listen to the broken record. The above quote is a load of defecation.
"after hearing the same thing, valid or not, for the 12,593rd time" ....in my opinion THAT is a load of dung as well.... Let me explain... Just because I don't waver on an issue that you may not agree with doesn't mean I am purposely carrying on a debate with you personally on it. I don't call you out to continue on about something. Now if the issue comes up again....lo and behold I may still state my opinion on this forum and that opinion may be the same as it was before and may still conflict with what you believe to be true. This most likely happens in discussions of other posts that may or may not be related but again...just because the message is the same doesn't reflect an effort on my part to belabor it and/or rub it in someone's face, etc.