Trump Finally Steps Up

Discussion in 'The Back Room' started by Motorcity Gator, Mar 17, 2020.

  1. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    AJ I believe Bob wanted me to address some of the not easily understood provisions of Michigan's stay at home orders and I addressed one of those pretty well..... from my knowledge gained from actual experiences in living 31 years in Michigan.
    With regard to the travel restrictions I have seen I-75 backed up for miles upon miles with cottage owners from the Detroit area heading up on a Friday afternoon to the northern reaches of the mitten or coming back on a Sunday afternoon.
    The large majority of the over 20,000 cases in Michigan are from the Detroit area.
    Doesn't it make sense not to have Covid -19 positives heading up to areas otherwise fairly well untouched by the virus?
     
  2. Bobdawolverweasel

    Bobdawolverweasel Well-Known Member

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    Re nurseries and hardware stores, they are open here in Wisconsin in contrast to Michigan and are not crowded at this time. They also limit the number of people inside the store so that social distancing restrictions can be maintained and will deliver to your home if one does not want to travel to a store. These policies seems far more sensible than Michigan’s total ban re nursery stores and hardware stores and allows people to spruce up their homes rather than vegetate on twitter.

    Similarly, in Wisconsin, auto dealerships and starting now golf courses are open with social distancing limitations but Michigan bans both and were forbidding auto dealers from selling via the internet which seemed a ludicrous restriction.

    On travel to 2nd vacation homes, the Michigan law ban, allows someone like me to travel into Michigan from Milwaukee to visit my little place in Mason County but bars the Michigan resident to visit her place that is next to ours. I understand the rationale of limiting seasonal residents since the small rural health systems in the UP and other seasonal resort areas are not equipped to handle a large number of Covid cases but do not understand the rationale of letting out of state owners travel but barring M residents especially since a great deal of the seasonal residents in Western Michigan tourist areas are owned by people in the Chicago area. i have not visited my place this year but am stunned that I have the legal ability to do so while my Michigander neighbor risks criminal charges if she travels.

    When I last checked, Michigan had as many Covid cases as the rest of the Great Lakes states combined. But, if one looks at Michigan, much of the state counties has only a few cases while the city of Detroit is a disaster. Rather than place draconian restrictions on the state as a whole, it might be a better idea to target assistance, aid, and virus-containment restrictions based on population density and case numbers since the risk of virus spread is much different in Drummond Island versus Woodward Avenue.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 19, 2020
  3. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    Bob the garden centers around Detroit this time of year have always been mobbed.... elbow to elbow.
    I know because my wife always sent me on buying missions etc. and I can't see social distancing working in such an environment.... it would be a cluster ****.
    I agree that if the Detroit area in general has 90% of Michigan cases then anyone from that area stays home while possibly easing travel restrictions for those in other parts of the state.... as long as they don't visit Aunt Edna in Detroit....
     
  4. WSU1996kesley

    WSU1996kesley Well-Known Member

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    Dave..... our minds just can't wrap itself around the blatantly slanted.... baseless angles put forth daily on CNN/MSNBC. They were networks that have become Rachel Madow and Dave Acosta type entertainment in mind and never really strays from that new objective.
    They continuously pander and stretch and report opinions and falsehoods more than actual facts.
    Trump derangement is their drug of choice for now and they resist everything he says/does, even when he changes his mind based on developments.....and seriously Dave....
    it seems pretty obvious you really listen to what CNN/MSNBC say?
    It's pretty.....incredible!!!
     
  5. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    That would be a clever play on words WSU except people other than network commentators like you find only on Fox News refute his constant lies daily..... including medical experts and Republican governors.
     
  6. gipper

    gipper Well-Known Member

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    Some Republican governors speak highly of him Dave. And which medical experts, the ones who told us originally that the virus was no serious threat to the US, the ones who made up faulty tests, or the ones that told us not to wear masks? And then there's the scientist who make up the models that were wildly inaccurate. Yeah and if you question them you're a "science denier." Oh, and I forgot the "medical experts in the WHO."
     
  7. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    I've already listed some who have disagreed with his statements of falsehoods..... like the GOP Md. governor saying Trump was not being truthful about testing capablilities and the GOP governor of Ohio saying that his state had trouble getting the reagents that they need for testing even though Trump says that the governors can easily get reagents. Just heard Fauci restate the need for ramping up state's capabilities to do testing before people can re-enter normal life and the economy can be restarted.
    I'm not against anyone who wants to be the careless guy forging ahead if he wants to deal with the virus he catches at home without infecting others.

    If someone trying everything they can to avoid it and protect themselves and others from it but manage to get it anyway that's a different story....

    But those who disregard all of the cautions and social distancing etc etc. because they feel like getting all energized by Trump's inciteful "liberate" tweets etc. without a sound medically approved plan to be out there then those people should stay at home when they contract the virus and hope Trump comes by to save them.
     
  8. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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  9. Stu Ryckman

    Stu Ryckman Well-Known Member

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    There are tremendous costs to closing down the economy almost completely and I'm talking about the little guy...not Wall Street. I don't need to go into the costs...they are obvious. It is a legitimate discussion to debate what baby steps can/should/should not be made to try and keep people working, fed, and yes, even alive while keeping everybody as safe as possible. Anecdotal cases and hyperbole and blame casting are not at all helpful. The idiots will always be with us. I would posit that most of those folks peacefully protesting are people who are hurting badly and opposed to some of the most draconian measures that do not make sense, at least to them. That poor little girl may have gotten exposed from a source other than her parents. God Bless them for all they are doing. If they did contract the virus it was more likely from responding to a nursing home or transporting some other unfortunate than from idiot protestors. I can live without a haircut, a social hour at the bar, golf, or even visiting my grandkids. But many of those folks are seeing their whole lives go down the tube...along with their kids and grandkids lives.
     
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  10. Stu Ryckman

    Stu Ryckman Well-Known Member

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    Just as an FYI and for whatever criticism anyone wishes to opine...I am posting this from Mitch Daniels;

    TO THE PEOPLE OF PURDUE:

    The global pandemic which has altered every previous reality of daily life has, of course, inflicted great harm on the nation’s colleges and universities. American higher education, often criticized for its antiquated ways and its slowness to change them, has improvised and responded with admirable, even amazing alacrity to enable students to finish this semester with the progress they anticipated.

    The central question now, assuming governmental authorities permit reopening of our schools by the customary August start dates, is should schools do so, and with what new rules and practices. Purdue University, for its part, intends to accept students on campus in typical numbers this fall, sober about the certain problems that the COVID-19 virus represents, but determined not to surrender helplessly to those difficulties but to tackle and manage them aggressively and creatively.

    Institutions committed to the on-campus educational experience face special difficulties in returning our operations to anything like their previous arrangements. At Purdue, we have pursued a conscious policy that promotes density of our population. Our campus master plan aims at bringing people more closely together. Our housing policies, with significant success, have been designed to encourage on-campus living. And there are far more of us; we have grown our entering classes, both undergraduate and graduate, by some 25%, while investing heavily in programs like learning communities that foster higher retention and graduation.

    There were sound reasons for these steps. Serving more students is our most worthy social mission. Making the campus more convenient and walkable likewise has obvious merits. Most important, all the evidence reveals that students who live and spend more of their time on campus succeed academically at higher rates. The learning experience is enhanced not only by being closer to faculty, labs, and classrooms, but also by being closer to other students, especially those from different backgrounds.

    Now, sadly and ironically, the very density we have consciously fostered is, at least for the moment, our enemy. Distance between people, that is, less density, is now the overriding societal imperative. It could be argued that a college campus will be among the most difficult places to reopen for previously regular activities.

    But in other respects, a place like Purdue may be in better position to resume its mission. Our campus community, a “city” of 50,000+ people, is highly unusual in its makeup. At least 80% of our population is made up of young people, say, 35 and under. All data to date tell us that the COVID-19 virus, while it transmits rapidly in this age group, poses close to zero lethal threat to them.

    Meanwhile, the virus has proven to be a serious danger to other, older demographic groups, especially those with underlying health problems. The roughly 20% of our Purdue community who are over 35 years old contains a significant number of people with diabetes, asthma, hypertension, and other ailments which together comprise a very high percentage of the fatal and most severe COVID-19 cases.

    We will consider new policies and practices that keep these groups separate, or minimize contact between them. Literally, our students pose a far greater danger to others than the virus poses to them. We all have a role, and a responsibility, in ensuring the health of the Purdue community.

    The approaches below are preliminary, meant to be illustrative of the objectives we will pursue. View them as examples, likely to be replaced by better ideas as we identify and validate them.

    They could include spreading out classes across days and times to reduce their size, more use of online instruction for on-campus students, virtualizing laboratory work, and similar steps.

    We will look to protect the more vulnerable members of our community by allowing (or requiring, if necessary) them to work remotely. Like the rest of society, we are learning a lot right now about which jobs are most amenable to remote work, and about new and better ways to do such work.

    We intend to know as much as possible about the viral health status of our community. This could include pre-testing of students and staff before arrival in August, for both infection and post-infection immunity through antibodies. It will include a robust testing system during the school year, using Purdue’s own BSL-2 level laboratory for fast results. Anyone showing symptoms will be tested promptly, and quarantined if positive, in space we will set aside for that purpose.

    We expect to be able to trace proximate and/or frequent contacts of those who test positive. Contacts in the vulnerable categories will be asked to self-quarantine for the recommended period, currently 14 days. Those in the young, least vulnerable group will be tested, quarantined if positive, or checked regularly for symptoms if negative for both antibodies and the virus.

    Again, these concepts are preliminary, intended mainly to illustrate an overall, data-driven and research-based strategy, and to invite suggestions for their modification or exclusion in favor of better actions. They will be augmented by a host of other changes, such as an indefinite prohibition on gatherings above a specified size, continued limitations on visitors to and travel away from campus, required use of face coverings and other protective equipment, frequent if not daily deep cleaning of facilities, and so forth.

    Whatever its eventual components, a return-to-operations strategy is undergirded by a fundamental conviction that even a phenomenon as menacing as COVID-19 is one of the inevitable risks of life. Like most sudden and alarming developments, its dangers are graphic, expressed in tragic individual cases, and immediate; the costs of addressing it are less visible, more diffuse, and longer-term. It is a huge and daunting problem, but the Purdue way has always been to tackle problems, not hide from them.

    Closing down our entire society, including our university, was a correct and necessary step. It has had invaluable results. But like any action so drastic, it has come at extraordinary costs, as much human as economic, and at some point, clearly before next fall, those will begin to vastly outweigh the benefits of its continuance. Interrupting and postponing the education of tomorrow’s leaders for another entire semester or year, is one of many such costs. So is permanently damaging the careers and lives of those who have made teaching and research their life’s work, and those who support them in that endeavor.

    The COVID-19 virus will remain a fact of life this autumn. Natural immunity, which has been slowed by the shutdown, will not yet have fully developed. No vaccine can be counted on until 2021 at the soonest. It is unclear what course other schools will choose, but Purdue will employ every measure we can adopt or devise to manage this challenge with maximum safety for every member of the Boilermaker family, while proceeding with the noble and essential mission for which our institution stands.

    Sincerely,

    Mitchell E. Daniels, Jr.
    President

    coronavirus.purdue.edu
     
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  11. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    It's a bold move by Purdue that is for sure. Time will tell if it was the right decision, and it will certainly be interesting to see how many Purdue students decide to come back to campus trusting that the assumptions behind the move are true.
     
  12. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    There's a lot of give and take and two sides of the coin on this Stu.
    But the virus hasn't changed.... hasn't mutated to a weaker version or gone dormant.
    So when you examine what Georgia is doing it's hard to imagine that the virus won't roar back in the Peach State:
    . "In-person church services can resume. And restaurants and movie theaters can open Monday"
     
  13. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    And here is an expert who makes what's happening soon in Georgia very ominous:
    Osterholm, who founded the University of Minnesota's Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy, warned in 2005 that "time is running out to prepare for the next pandemic," a point that he expanded on in his 2017 book, "Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs."
    He discussed the coronavirus at a recent online event organized by the New America think tank with me. The discussion was edited for length and clarity and updated with new information.
    "As we learn more about the transmission of this virus, it's very clear that it is at least, if not more, infectious than even what the world experienced in the historic pandemic influenza of 1918. And I'm convinced that this pandemic is following what we experienced in 1918.
    While I don't expect the Covid-19 pandemic to be exactly like that of 1918, the epidemiology tells me that this first wave of illness is, in fact, just the beginning of what could very easily be 16 to 18 months of substantial activity of this virus around the world, coming and going, wave after wave. Robert Redfield, the director of the Centers for the Disease Control (CDC) commented Tuesday that he believes a 2020-21 winter wave could be worse than what we have experienced this spring."
     
  14. Bobdawolverweasel

    Bobdawolverweasel Well-Known Member

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  15. Terry O'Keefe

    Terry O'Keefe Well-Known Member Administrator

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    So Dave shelter in place till 2022? Continue the shutdown of the economy till 2022?
     
  16. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    No Terry.... sure don't want that.
    Not going to have a "reopening" though if people stay home too afraid for their safety.
    If people do venture out based on ideology vs. medical science and there's no sound medical plan to keep it at bay it's not logical to think that the virus won't return with new infections at a high rate.
    We would need a miraculous War of the Worlds type ending where the invaders died off naturally rather than be defeated.
     
  17. Stu Ryckman

    Stu Ryckman Well-Known Member

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    Methinks Ga is opening up too soon and quickly...The governor was on TV last night defending his decision. He did say that they were putting in very strict decontamination and social distancing rules for gyms. Movie theaters seem like a bad idea, as do packed church services. Drive-In movies, come on back!
     
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  18. IrishCorey

    IrishCorey Well-Known Member

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    Georgia is about to step in a giant pile of dog sh*t according to many medical folks that I know in the area. I hope it isn't so, but so far, these folks haven't been wrong. My infectious disease Dr had a full blown rant that lasted for my entire visit last time. I'm looking forward to this week's rant :)
     
  19. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    That's the way it sure seems Corey.... with Trump and conservative news entertainment people cheering them on.
    It's not a matter of a little fever and body ache for many. For 15-20 % it's hospitalization and for 5% it's death. For these people in high government to send people to their deaths and sickness fully knowing it's a great possibility is beyond belief to me. Pretty damned inhuman....
    Right now Ron DeSantis is talking live and he is citing current numbers of infections, hospitalizations and deaths etc. and how they are down here in Florida and under other states per 100,000.
    The problem I see with citing these stats is that it has been 5 weeks since anyone was getting near anyone else. So you open things up and let everyone get back into doing anything but social distancing ( because let's face it...it ain't gonna go down that way ) and then what? Where do those medical numbers go from there?
     
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    Last edited: Apr 22, 2020
  20. gipper

    gipper Well-Known Member

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    "That's the way it sure seems Corey.... with Trump and conservative news entertainment people cheering them on."
    In his presser tonight Trump said he disagreed with the Ga. governor's decision. But hey, you got the lie right on the nose. You should be working for the NY Times or CNN.
     
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