OK guys... I want to have a discussion about the source of evil in our country, the AR-15. We've touched it a little bit here and there, but I want to know your thoughts, and what you base them on. I'll go first. The Armalite Rifle 15 has been demonized, to put it lightly, by the media in the last few years, and I can't really figure out why. Is it because it's scary? Cuztomizable? or just sexy for their ratings? On the one hand... it IS an effective weapon. No doubt. And yes... it is used for hunting by quite a few owners. On the other... is banning it going to make a DIFFERENCE? Stats tell a story that isn't being heard. From 2016 FBI uniform crime stats (which is a very hard table to get to!) Murders by handgun: 7105 Murders by rifle (ALL rifles, not just AR): 374 Murders by shotgun: 262 Murder by firearm unknown: 3263 The first 3 items tell you that even if you removed ALL AR-15's AND shotguns from the US, you have not even made a minor dent in firearm homicides. The 4th item are homicides in which the gun type wasn't identified. Even if HALF of those are AR-15 (which is doubtful at best) you still have only decreased the gun homicide rate by 30%... and that's assuming you removed all of them... from law abiding citizens AND the criminal side as well. What are the odds of that? I think I could understand a great push to regulate/ban guns if they were attacking the handgun; you might get some statistically significant results there. Going after the "weapon of choice" for a minuscule portion of homicides really doesn't make much sense. Have at it...
One slight adjustment. The "minuscule" statement is based on ALL rifles accounting for only 4% of gun homicides. I understand it is possibly higher, but that needs to be fleshed out with more detailed data...
Fear and horror is a great motivator. If you can instill fear, the normally rational mind will not take regard to cold facts or statistics. The horrific school/theater/concert shootings cause a great deal of fear, even if they are statistically a very small portion of all homicides every year. When people are scared, they want to do something, anything, about the cause of their fear. Sometimes the solution will truly address the problem. Many times it will not. Another plausible explanation is that the gun control ratchet will take whatever they can get. Whatever is the current source of horror is the group of guns that is easiest to ban. Once that group is gone, the ratchet will crank down on the next group. It is too big of a bite to take all handguns, which is why those are not the primary target at this time.
Raise the age of purchase to 21. Make background checks universal and include local, state and federal information. Uniform registration data base.
I think we're all on board with George's suggestion. What I really wanted to hear was if you support a ban of this platform and if so why?
This podcast is worth a listen. https://www.nationalreview.com/podcasts/the-editors/episode-77-gun-control/ Also I'd agree with George. Also I think it's already been mentioned but the Va.Tech shooter used hand guns. Clearly that AR-15 is a military grade weapon, and can kill a lof of people quickly as we have sadly seen. That makes it a big target for gun control. I don't hunt and I don't even own a gun. But I can see the reason why people are focused on the AR15. I think we are numb to some degree to homicides where a hand gun is used, the proverbial sat night special. They happen daily but these mass shooting are much more of a shock to our systems. I support making it tougher to get these weapons as George proposed. I will be suprised if it results in elimination of mass shootings. Something is going on in society, it's not like back in the 40's or 50's we didn't have all the guns we needed to kill a lot of people quickly, but yet we didn't have mass shootings.
There are dozens of laws in the books that already cover firearm issues, but we ignore those and ask for more from fear and anger. Marching on the State capitol with megahorns demanding instant change while every media outlet in the known world gleefully covers it for ratings is nothing but pure emotion being burned off. And to be honest if it was my son or daughter I would have world ending emotion and the travesty its brought to my house. Mental health concerns and Florida being ranked 50 out of all States in the Mental health category is conveniently ignored until the emotion is burned off and now is finally starting to be addressed. As the days go by we learn again and again how both the school district, Sheriff dept and in a very small way the FBI had the chance to address the issue. It's funny that not a lot has been mentioned that the Broward County school board asked the Sheriff's dept to back off arrest a few years ago of their students. Reason was that it messed up their statistics and lowered the amount of Federal aid available to the school district. Per Scott's question on the AR platform it's in the bulls-eye and nothing is going to remove it at this point. You can throw all the current statistics that may show baby cribs cause more deaths at this point and it's not going to change the discussion or get the media attention as this makes ratings and in turn makes money for the media. I have no problem with George's suggestion and would even include the addition of passing the same education that concealed weapons permit carriers must go through. Which is pay for the class, attend 6 hours of gun safety and pass the ability to fire the weapon. I do have a "personal issue" with the 21 years of age "only" in that if we are going to expect our young men and woman to give their life in the military but tell them they are really not old enough to drink or buy a gun the age of enlistment should be 21 years old as well. We are wanting our cake and eat it as well with this statement. And yeah I hear "oh those who join will be exempt" but that's horseshit. Either you believe I can shoot your gun and buy a drink at the same time at enlistment or you don't, feeding me this exemption crap is just that. I am neither Democrat or Republican and don't watch Fox or CNN, the feeling is there is bias and given agenda's in all of the above entities, in politics its more about power grabs and the continuation of the power base they serve and in the media it's about exposure and money... Just as the case of our last election it seems the biggest schism is in urban versus rural. There is a major difference in the individual who grows up using a firearm to those who only read about it in the news after an incident occurs. Why is it that in the early 80's every male who had a truck in a non-urban area in Florida of all places had a gun in the back window as he drove into school. Why didn't school shootings happen on a daily basis if guns and young men are the two factors that don't add up in today's equation. Could it possibly be that parenting has a responsibility in this or in the case of those who don't have parental guidance could it be that we actually had somewhat of a mental health system at that time or folks outside that family unit cared enough to bring it to the attention of law enforcement who cared enough to respond...?
I'm right there with you Ralph. I grew up in Montana in which every truck in the school parking lot during hunting season would have at least two rifles in the back window, as well as a revolver/pistol in a holster on the seat/in the glove box. As others have asked before me, what has changed between then and now to put the AR-15 specifically on the chopping block? There is functionally nothing different between that rifle and the rifles we hunted with as kids. The AR-15 may LOOK more military, but it is the same rifle down to the cartridge, action, magazine, ballistics, and lethal capability.
I bet you didn't hunt with a 30 round magazine as a kid. :wink: I refuse to use the term mass shootings. These are mass killings; mass murders and those doing them are mass murderers. I respect George's opinions. But I am surprised that y'all seem to agree with him in favor of uniform gun registration. I'm not going to argue about it...but I am hugely opposed to that. The AR platform is on the chopping block not because it is more lethal than other rifles; rather it has been romanticized and glorified by the entertainment media, the video games, and the news media as the end-all "gotta have it" weapon for these killers...and they seem to have bought into it and it has become their tool of choice (apparently). True...they will just find another tool of choice, but maybe some restrictions on AR15's will slow down these nutcases at least in the short term. Protecting our schools and making them safe is the best way to handle this. And I see people arguing too much over what can and should or should not be done. All options to make our kids safe from those who would do them evil should be on the table.
I can’t speak for everyone but I know this plays in my thinking of how to make our children safe from harm as far as registration or more in-depth hurdles before owning certain firearms. Does it kinda irk me for sure, but we didn’t have a hunters safety course when I was a young man either and now it’s a requirement before purchasing a hunting license. I adapted and did what was required by the law. Sad thing is we all know how someone bent on killing another human being is staying up at night concerned with one more govt restriction... I mean we all go the posted speed limit at all times in life, right.... PS - I had a mini 14 with a 20 round magazine sitting in the back window gunrack my entire senior year of high school. When the hogs move in groups of thirty or more it’s time for more ammo...
Yeah... I think I misread the registration part. I am torn on that one. I get why it seems beneficial, but on the other hand I suspect if it goes into effect, the next mass murder (excellent point Stu) will be committed by an unregistered weapon. The one thing many folks seem to miss (not saying any of you) is that if we banned ALL guns today (or registered them all)... there would still be a plethora of them here that are not accounted for. There is also the black market which would swell. Our border is far too insecure to keep them out... just like we haven't stopped drugs.
George... The "problem" with registering is the possibility of seizure. Is that going to happen in my lifetime? Probably not, but then again I see the "millenials" and they do a lot of things I never thought I'd see. They will be in charge at some point.
Wow. OK. Registration might also solve a few crimes as well. I guess those who don't want voters registered have their reasons too.
I’m going to change up the conversation pertaining to registration, we by United States law are not required by the law to register firearms made by ourselves. I can, or you can legally make a AR platform, glock or 1911 and do not have to register it. So ignoring the swirling breeze of political winds and commentary from whoever has an opinion and feels it’s worthy to comment their opinion doesn’t really matter in this instance. For $1,700 you can finish any of the above mentioned firearms and it’s perfectly legal to do so. No markings, no serial number, nothing but custom made guns for your personal use. I can only speak for myself but I have firearms that cost more than the price of the machine to accomplish this, what am I waiting for. https://youtu.be/g_Vpa3ohmJc