Trigger happy

Discussion in 'The Back Room' started by Motorcity Gator, Jan 19, 2017.

  1. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    Florida’s controversial “stand your ground” law, which allows people to use deadly force if they’re acting in self-defense, has led to a significant rise in killings, according to a new medical study.

    The law, implemented in 2005, was associated with a 32 percent rise in firearm-related homicides in Florida and a nearly 25 percent rise in killings overall in the state, according to the study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association

    I think the law must read "stand your ground and shoot the m'fer that pisses you off."

    Nice law.....
     
  2. HUSKERMAN-HUSKERFAN

    HUSKERMAN-HUSKERFAN Well-Known Member

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    You're assuming the person on the receiving end of the bullet had no intentions of harming/killing the shooter? Wonder what percentage that was?

    Kill or be killed....

    Reminds me of what we said in the Corps...."If you can't take a joke, you better not be one"
     
  3. gipper

    gipper Well-Known Member

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    This according to the NY Times. I guess that Florida's stand you ground law has caused the murder rate to rise in the whole country.
     
  4. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    A 32% rise in gun homicides in the state of Florida since Stand Your Ground was implemented as reported by a JAMA study is hard to ignore.

    You can call it fake.... say it ain't so Joe.... point out that in Guam since Stand Your Ground was eliminated homicides are up 32%.... tell me you know more about Stand Your Ground than some Journal of American Medicine Study.... maybe point out that because the word Journal..... as in journalism must make this false news etc etc..... but those numbers are significant.
     
  5. IrishCorey

    IrishCorey Well-Known Member

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    I have 2 crossbows and an Arkansas toothpick sharp enough to give you the best shave of your life.

    If I shot you with a gun while you broke into my house, I'd be doing you a favor.
     
  6. gipper

    gipper Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what period of time the JAMA study covered but do you think that a jihadist walking into a nightclub in Orlando and killing 49 people may have had some contribution to the total? If only one person in the club had had a weapon the total would have been much less but then the nightclub was a gun free zone.
     
  7. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    From JAMA:

    In 2005, Florida amended its self-defense laws to provide legal immunity to individuals using lethal force in self-defense. The enactment of “stand your ground” laws in the United States has been controversial and their effect on rates of homicide and homicide by firearm is uncertain.

    Objective To estimate the impact of Florida’s stand your ground law on rates of homicide and homicide by firearm.

    Design, Setting, and Participants Using an interrupted time series design, we analyzed monthly rates of homicide and homicide by firearm in Florida between 1999 and 2014
     
  8. George Krebs

    George Krebs Well-Known Member

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    I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
     
  9. Stu Ryckman

    Stu Ryckman Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a big advocate of stand your ground laws (nor a huge opponent)...but...

    Maybe, just maybe, that study indicates that the law works as intended.

    Perhaps many or most of those deaths were cases of individuals who really were under threat of severe bodily harm and saved themselves. Perhaps many of them prevented a severe beating, an armed robbery, a kidnapping, a car jacking... Perhaps many or most of those cases don't involve a situation that Dave seems to think the idea is...that stand your ground law advocates think that you should be able to shoot somebody because you don't like the color of his tie.

    Stand your ground laws are NOT supposed to allow you to pick a fight, escalate an argument, and then kill somebody because you felt threatened. Is that happening? I don't know.
     
  10. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    If people are saving themselves by blasting their attacker it's not making news and you would think that would be great news.

    What makes the news is the father killed on the basketball court in front of his daughter because of a dispute and the guy shot in front of his wife in the movie theater because of a dispute over cell phone texting to his babysitter.
     
  11. RECcane

    RECcane Well-Known Member

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    Honestly I'm an advocate that everyone walks away...That being said yeah I have a concealed permit as does my entire family but I'm not the biggest fan of the stand your ground law either. I am cops son, with a brother in law and a nephew in law enforcement. This law makes it very hard for law enforcement to equate what actually happened in a particular situation.

    I am all into self preservation of my family when harms presents itself because I understand that those given license by the government are not always around when a crisis arises. Which at the core is the biggest issue for me because I have zero faith if I'm located 40 miles away from a sheriff substation that the men in blue are going to protect me.

    At stake is who is protecting him or herself when faced in a situation when running for your life or the knowledge that law enforcement is a long way away...For me the weakness is if the other person has the training, foresight, is composed and has a level head to evaluate the situation. Meanwhile if you stop the political stance and put yourself in that situation what would you do....It's easy to judge when given hindsight but walking in the shoes of another it is all together different.

    At the end I will hold to my original point, I want everyone to walk away and be safe if both the parties are in fear for their life. Now if you have intent to harm an innocent and are faced with what was a perceived weak target only to find it has teeth I hope you pay the price as actions have consequences....
     
  12. Sid

    Sid Well-Known Member

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    What Ralph said.
     
  13. Stu Ryckman

    Stu Ryckman Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, not since yesterday.

    http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/22/concealed-carry-permit-holder-stops-deadly-shooter-at-san-antonio-mall/
     
  14. gipper

    gipper Well-Known Member

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    And of course last week

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ambushed-arizona-trooper-saved-passing-motorist-who-shot-attacker-dead-n706381
     
  15. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    Ok.... so there are examples of course of concealed weapons permit holders doing good deeds around the country.

    Does that reflect directly on the increase in gun deaths in the state of Florida that are docmented simultaneously with the state's "Stand Your Ground" laws?
     
  16. gipper

    gipper Well-Known Member

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    Where's the study by the JAMA about how many innocent lives have been saved by the act? Oh, doesn't fit the agenda?
     
  17. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    This one in Jacksonville was about as senseless as it gets:

    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion/commentary/fl-lmoped-stand-your-ground-20170123-story.html?utm_content=buffer7722b&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

    Popcorn thrown in a theater over cell phone texting, playing basketball at dusk on the neighborhood court and this one.

    All examples of people who had no business carrying around a gun to confront and kill people with whom they did not agree.
     
  18. HUSKERMAN-HUSKERFAN

    HUSKERMAN-HUSKERFAN Well-Known Member

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    All I read there was "this is what happened according to me"
     
  19. Stu Ryckman

    Stu Ryckman Well-Known Member

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    What is missing from the story is the outcome;

    The shooter in the Jordan Davis case is serving lifetime in prison with no chance of parole. The stand your ground defense apparently distracted a couple of jurors in his first trial so he got a mistrial; however the same jurors in the first trial did convict him of three counts of attempted murder and firing into a vehicle, all of which caused him to face up to 75 years in prison.

    But then the second jury saw properly (IMO) that stand your ground had nothing to do with such outrageous behavior and found him guilty of first degree murder and gave him life without parole.
     
  20. Motorcity Gator

    Motorcity Gator Well-Known Member

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    That's all well and good Stu but the kid is dead and his mother grieves.

    The shooter was just an asshole that used the Stand Your Ground law to be a murderous asshole and the whole killing may never have happened except for that law.

    Same thing in the other two examples I gave and frankly in the George "I am a chronic asshole" Zimmerman case with Trayvon Martin.

    The problem is that the concealed weapons/ gun carry laws don't differentiate between who is a law abiding good guy from the murderous assholes.