gipper and thanks for giving me the chance to remind your how you reacted when any of us Gators had similar reactions after we were put on probation in 1990. As I recall you didn't accept any excuses, we were just bad guys. But wow Notre Dame has a problem and we are all supposed to show our belief in Notre Dame. Actually I do understand your feelings, to bad you never gave any of us the same courtesy.
OHHHH and one last thing. Coach Holtz heard about the players dating/banging Dunbar and that she was giving them gifts/taking them on trips. Coach Holtz put his top young assistant on the task of digging into the matter to find out what was going on. That young coach came back and reported his findings to Lou Holtz. He said the lady was spending the money, but it appears that she is simply dating them and has no connection to the program. When Holtz asked him if he thought they should look further into it, the coach (CORRECTLY MIND YOU) reminded Coach Holtz that he thought it would be a PR disaster if it ever came to light that Notre Dame was investigating black players for dating a white woman because she was giving them gifts. That young coach still goes by the name of Urban Meyer to this day.
always shooting the messenger. Nothing I'm saying is new and I'm quite sure many good folks from Ohio will let you know about their fan base. I'm not really sure how saying they were guilty of some things, that were proven, while over prosecuted for others will piss them off.. but if it does, it does.
Everybody's feelings are hurt when they find out their favorite team has been cheating. It is always more fun to see the other team self immolate. The Yahoo story certainly appears air tight. Fluker even advertised his own indiscretions months ago and mocked everyone in the process. The Dunbar story with ND stunk to high heaven as well and I have no doubt as to the veracity of that discovery. I equally certain that Ohio State's issues are true and that Tennessee and Mississippi State are knee deep in this current fiasco. Why would any of us take on blind faith that our programs are 100% legit? We all want that mythical championship and are more than willing to look the other way when these moral stumbling blocks pop up along the way. We all become ostriches and point our fingers at each other with indignation. So what the hell. Whatever these overgrown children want ,let's give it to them. Booze,broads, cash or phony degrees. Who cares as long as we can pound our chests. Lets pay these children to entertain us. Anyone who has ever heard one of these gods interviewed knows that classwork is not at the top of the list of things to do so let's drop the pretense of " student athlete" once and for all. Pay them what they want. After all, they are entertainers and we must be entertained.
My question to all these new accusations is if the NCAA is up to the task. Miami is what, 26 months into their inquisition of guilty first until proven innocent (And no, I am not saying they are innocent) so what does each new atrocity mean to the teams being accused...? I am amazed at the paper trail that Yahoo has been able to bring forward, how in the world is this possible....
Me too Ralph. Seems to me like all of this dwarfs Florida's last run-in with the NCAA that went down during Spurrier's first year.... denying UF the 1990 SEC Crown that was the foundation for the rest of the Spurrier led UF SEC Championships. Poor ole Galen Hall THREE YEARS and TWO coaches earlier supposedly loaned a player about 50 bucks and gave him a ride to an Orlando couthouse to keep that player from going to jail for non-payment of child support... who probably was NOT getting paid to play at Florida ( therefore he couldn't pay his child support ). So...instead of a little slap on the wrist for such a "grievous" 1987 season crime UF was frigging denied the 1990 SEC Title rightfully earned on the goddamned field. I don't feel sorry for anyone when it comes to the NCAA..... :twisted:
It seems to me that the media has decided to go after college football maybe since all this stuff gets eyeballs on their webpages or maybe ESPN needs something juicy to talk about every night. Maybe the media/ESPN wants to make life at the NCAA very uncomfortable and maybe they think they can bring down the NCAA or force it to change. I don't know. But I don't think any of this is new. I remember when Bob Davie was hired as HC at ND the media went out and dug a decades old story from when he was a Grad Assistant or something like that, where he had spied on an opponent and got caught. Then of course it was the media who dug up the O'Leary story, that not only cost O'Leary a few years of his life trying to out run that, but it also caused every AD in the country to double check all their coaches bios...I think a Colorado womens basketball coach was fired because he couldn't prove something right away, and later he was able to do so but it was too late he'd already lost his job. The sad thing is that it was the AD who hired him and failed to vette his application properly that should have been fired as well but he kept his job. I think in some ways we need a good round of scandals in college football. A lot of states have laws regarding this agent deal...some Agents need to go to jail. The NCAA does need reform, I'm not sure exactly what needs to be done as I'm not for paying the players a salary as only a few schools could truly afford that and if they pay football players and don't get the pants sued off of them by parents of female athletes under Title IX then it becomes an arms race and places where AD makes enough money to actually afford to pay football players will dominate. Oh yeah and eventually, do you think star players and their parents will accept that the kid who never plays deserves the same as their boy, and then what about that 5* player when he signs the LOI, doesn't he deserve more than some lowly 2* player. Reform the NCAA for sure, just be careful what you wish for...
Oh and for what it's worth I have no idea if ND players of course could be on the take, it's possible. Esp if they are draftable and Agents are involved. I have heard from people who are close to the program at Texas in the past that players were given hundred dollar handshakes by boosters, that envelopes with cash did find their way to star players. If a ND or Texas player got caught taking money from an Agent I would not be shocked. I'm sure they would rationalize it that "everybody does it" and it's not like I'm hurting anybody and I need the money and it's just a loan on what I'll be getting in a few months, etc...you can bet every kid who gets caught up in something like what Yahoo is reporting on will make the same rationalization. Sure they are breaking the rules, but the rules are stupid.
From a Tide Website Administrator. Tide Website Admin I don't blame most SEC fans, including kp, bill, mcg, etc for being offended that their conference gets branded by outsiders as systemic cheaters. I don't blame them for pointing out other teams like ND, Ohio State have had their issues. I agree with gippers explanation of the Dunbar affair but nobody I know who is a Texas or a Texas A&M fan saw it that way when it was a hot topic. If you remember when the Ohio State thing was hot surrounding Tatoogate that our Ohio State fans were not eager to buy that their program was a cheating program, although fans of other schools were eager to buy that.
I vote every team involved in anything wrong gets stripped of any title earned within 5 years of said infraction.... :twisted: :evil:
The whole forfeiting of games, etc is sort of hollow. USC vacated wins I think as a result of the Bush deal, but I doubt if any team that they played changed their outcomes or claimed that that season was a 8-4 season now instead of a 7-5 season. Same for the Nat'l Title or Conference Championships. I could not imagine ND or LSU claiming a Nat'l Title if the Tide had to vacate the win, or that Georgia would claim a victory over the Tide last year and SEC championship. Like the 2005 Heisman, Bush gave back the trophy and even Vince Young said he wouldn't accept it even though at the time of the voting he thought he deserved it for his season.
And you wonder why I harbor ill will toward the good ole boys of the SEC. $50 bucks and a ride to court to keep the kid ( Jarvis Williams....who was destined to make millions in the NFL ).... out of jail.... three or maybe even 4 years before the Spurrier led Gators won the SEC Title fair and square. Mind you this wasn't some cockeyed NCAA enforced penalty..... it was the SEC heirarchy..... which didn't really include the Gators much at the time. Who amongst you wouldn't be pissed off about that?
Haven't you guys been an SEC team for like 100 years?? But even Bill, if I remember correctly, felt like the SEC screwed the coach of that team and the team itself.
Terry, my feeling about the Gators being stripped of the one title after the fact is that it was BS. Not the next year when the rule was in effect, but after the fact. Auburn won an SEC Championship and National Championship in the 50's while they were on probation and it was not stripped. Until that vote that took ours away after the fact the a team was allowed to win the Championship. That was my beef. We would also have won the next year and in Spurriers first season in 1990. I have no complaint about not winning the SEC either of those years. I have a beef with the NCAA and the penalty they handed down in 1990 but not the SEC. The good ole boys of the SEC? Maybe at one time I had a beef, but now I believe the Gators are as powerful in the SEC structure as anyone. What I do like about the SEC is that they structure the income to be shared by all and no one team can go on their own with TV contracts etc. That is not a shot at Texas, but what I like about my conference. The Big 12 can do what they think is best and I don't have a beef with them at all. But they do need to be aware of what it takes to keep their best teams as all conferences do.
We have been an SEC team for a long long time but we didn't earn much respect amongst the SEC's upper echelon/good ole boys until Spurrier came along in 1990 and began to whip everybody's butt at least once apiece. In the 70s and 80s we had some very good teams.....and won the SEC in 1984 but that coaching regime indeed had NCAA troubles ( similar in scope I think to some things you are seeing today with others )... and the SEC brotherhood removed that title also from the Florida football trophy case ( deservedly so. ). What happened I believe is that it worked well in 1984 so.... when the Gators won it again 1990 even though the NCAA was fine with it the good ole boys saw an opportunity and took advantage of Florida..... and it was classless.
Thanks to those Spurrier asswhippings and SEC Titles and the three National Titles that is indeed the case today. In the good ole boy days we were never MissSt or Kentucky but we were not Alabama, Georgia, Tenn, LSU or Auburn.... and I think they rather liked it that way.